Number of VtES players

Reality_Check wrote:

Let me tell you, the VTES can be a miserable, miserable experience for a newcomer. .

Not just for a newcomer. Need to have vtes events in a strip club or something so when the game is terrible (not rare) we have something to do.

Pyrocuror wrote:

nedleeds wrote:

I'm also a competitive Magic player and have been for 25 years. I play Vintage and Legacy mostly.

As I began to consider 'expanding' our pool of cards I researched the current 'best' decks and was shocked to find the same core cards from 25 years ago that we had learned to sort of be the rock, paper, scissors of our 'Jyhad' format are still being spammed constantly in 2019.

I also hapen to also play Legacy. I stopped a couple years ago and got back into MtG recently. And you know what ? I saw the same decks I played, almost card for card years ago. Delver variants with playsets of brainstorms, preordain and ponders. ANT storm with the exact same list card for cards. Chalice for one decks trying to shutdown the aforementioned. Reanimator and Sneak and show trying to get Grisebrand in.
All in all, the same cards still being spammed in 2019.

Concerning the waste of money that VTES can be, it's pretty audacious coming from a Vintage player right ? I mean the most expensive tier 1 deck in VTES isn't even worth a fwb played volcanic island, and a huge majority of the other competitive decks are cheaper than a playset of fetches ... I mean ... come on.

So you agree? Magic didn't fix it's problems. Just made them worse, the play patterns in Legacy for example are stale as a month old fart. It's a shame VTES seems to be in the same pattern.

I'm not complaining about VTES cost, and I have plenty of discretionary income, I'm pointing out that buying the newer cards doesn't really change the play pattern nor solve the flaws. Getting more sets doesn't change the game for the better enough to be worth the effort or complexity. We only bought group 2 because contesting isn't fun and having only 1 group produces more contesting than normal.

This is why if BCP wants any growth or to recapture older players they should create a type II for VTES. They had a golden chance to start from a clean slate and give new players a starting point. Make the format a non-rotating one from their publishing forward, with the 4 x 120 card or whatever they are fixed packs, plus the pre-cons or something. It's a shame if they don't, Garfield created an amazing game.

Reality_Check wrote:

watching players divide victory points and then go against the normal flow of the game,

Well, this is to me ( as a frustrated individual who want his power-trip in vtes right ? ) the sole interest of VTES. Alliances, deals, and going against the flow is what makes this game interesting. If you only want to play your prey, why even play VTES and not a duel game ?

It can be frustrating if you're bad at the social aspect of the game and usually a victim in crosstable deals, yes. But it also means that if you're able to convince people, you CAN win even if you have a deck that really fucks you up as a prey or predator for example. Because people can help you crosstable.

If games were only going by their "natural flow", admiting a table full of players that can pilot their deck decently, then you could predict the outcome of the game on turn 1 if you know what deck everyone is playing. A beat B beats C, this VP go there, player A wins.

In its current state, with a table full of able players, it's hard to predict the outcome of a game - and that's what makes VTES an incredible game.

Reality_Check wrote:

there is little fun in being at the table with a player exploiting one of those absurdly broken combos that let them play literally 20+ minutes per turn or more, there is little fun in having to sit at the table with all your minions down with nothing to do after some frustrated individual got his power-trip fix by rushing heavily, there is little fun in being ousted by some random monstrous bleed redirected X times around the table.

And what exactly do you find fun in VTES ? Can you give us down to the earth examples of good experiences you had ? What deck do you like to play or to go against ? Are you a competitive player ? What are you expecting from the game ?

It would help me to understand what do people expect from this game. Because as veteran player waiting for my fossilized game to go to its demise, I'd like to understand what do you guys want ?

Reality_Check wrote:

but rather about using limited number of overpowered cards and combos with little theme behind the actions. And what is left then? The CCG format except for the MtG is generally dead, and I have my doubts whether this game could attract a lot MtG players that had not known about the game before.

Mtg if full of overpowered cards and combos and still works wonder. And I mean, overpowered takes litteraly another meaning in MTG. My guess is, if VTES doesn't work, it's not because of "overpowered" cards or whatever.

nedleeds wrote:

So you agree? Magic didn't fix it's problems. Just made them worse, the play patterns in Legacy for example are stale as a month old fart. It's a shame VTES seems to be in the same pattern.

I agree on some points. Good cards from 1994 are still played you're right. You will still see bleed stealth and majesty, as you still see brainstorms and dark rituals. But I don't think that's what make the game fail as a commercial product.

Even as its peak, VTES would never have been MtG for the simple reason it's a game that needs 5 players and 2 hours to play. It has also a smaller audience than say Mtg or Yugioh because there a no kids buying packs or playing.

The base design of VTES makes it a "niche" game.
The other point I was arguing was Elotar saying the already small playerbase decreased because of combat deck, when it's obviously because the game was out of print.

Well that's just my 2 cents. I will keep on playing Majesty in combat and Brainstorming in response to Thoughtseize. Have a nice day

Ashur wrote:

Mewcat wrote:

Not just for a newcomer. Need to have vtes events in a strip club or something so when the game is terrible (not rare) we have something to do.

I tend to "solve" this by trying to not get ousted. _NEVER_ get ousted. Analogous with MMA fighting

There is a real disconnect here. A game isn't terrible because im getting ousted, because it's terrible I would prefer to get ousted. I would have thought that was clear from all this discussion.