Whine Bitch Moan Complain games starting up -- interested?

Klaital wrote:

That govern change is silly, it will just make people switch to scouting mission instead.

Oh well. No complaints from me about that.

Klaital wrote:

That govern change is silly, it will just make people switch to scouting mission instead.

Even that would be a big change. It mean significantly slower oust and build-up via dominate.

It may be a bit sad to see govern being unused, but at least for experiments it can be accepted. Maybe increasing the cost to 3 blood but giving 4 blood on a vampire and +4 bleed ? This way, it's expensive but game changing, something that may very well have a niche.

In my opinion, very few cards are worth more than 1 blood. There are plenty of other discplines that have +2 bleed actions that cost 1 blood, some even that are free, so why should govern be nerfed like that?

Klaital wrote:

In my opinion, very few cards are worth more than 1 blood. There are plenty of other discplines that have +2 bleed actions that cost 1 blood, some even that are free, so why should govern be nerfed like that?

'cause he is by a fair margin the best one, for two reason :
* he is in dominate, with other very good defensive and offensive option, like Conditionning and Deflection. A weenie is far superior to a weenie (or even a weenie in fact) because of this.
* he have an alternate sup' level which is useful and very different. Unlike the presence version, you can actually deal with your prey/predator so that they don't block a govern sup, for example.

That does not mean that the change used in this thread are the best. It's just that the goal is to hit hard the dominate, and to do this you have to hit either Conditionning, Govern, or Deflection with a big hammer. Here, all three are hit.

I already use Redirection instead of Deflection in most of my dominate decks anyway, because its silly to pay for something you can get for free, and most of my decks don't leave vampires loitering untapped anyway. Also if you nerf conditioning, people just move to using threats or foreshadowing, which I already use in many decks over conditioning since again, free is good.

Klaital wrote:

I already use Redirection instead of Deflection in most of my dominate decks anyway, because its silly to pay for something you can get for free, and most of my decks don't leave vampires loitering untapped anyway. Also if you nerf conditioning, people just move to using threats or foreshadowing, which I already use in many decks over conditioning since again, free is good.

Well, it's more "argument to also nerf Redirection, threat, and foreshadowing destruction" than anything else

More seriously, Redirection, like every bounce accessible with an inferior discipline, is problematic, while threat and foreshadowing are both actually quite a bit less good than conditionning (but better than 2-blood conditionning) simply because 1 blood for an unconditionnal +2/+3 is just better than being free and having restriction or less bleed.

If dominate had neither govern, conditionning, nor bleed redirection, the "dominate module" would not be a successful concept