The future of V:TES

Daidalos wrote:

Would you, in the case of reprints, consider some sort of distinguishing the reprints, making them visibly "less attractive", so that the old cards wouldn't lose that much value? A very nice example are the Challenge decks for Middle-Earth the Wizards - the game uses black borders for limited editions, blue border for unlimited and battleship grey for the challenge decks. I believe such a solution could give the new players all the necessary cards and the secondary market wouldn't completely collapse.
(I must confess I have a very "preciousss-like" attitude to my cards.)

this. very much this. i was kind of happy LSJ didn't reprint Sensory Deprivation in the Ravnos LotN set. myyyy.. prrreeecccciioooussss. haha

I can remember when magic used white borders for all base edition reprints. they did away with it because no-one ever preferred white borders. if the reprints don't look bad next to other cards its good otherwise not so much.

but, I think re categorizing rarety for pod wouldbe an optimal way to make players happy. Uncommons like freak drive and deflection should be common or at least mote common, and junk rates like virilax facility should be mot rares. maybe a junk common category for wallpaper cards and rares like gather, which doesn't suck but is no cog or preternatural strength level card, could be made uncommon. immortal grapple, as the staple of potence, should be uncommon or common.

just basic marketing logic says if more if what's useable is in the packs, the more they are worth buying, as is proven by comparing the anniversary tins or httb precons to other sealed product. or even the venture starter in kot to the other precons.
I'm sure that is all being taken into consideration, but if this all works out I'd like to see more playable cards of all rareties , from abbot to purge to eyes of Argus to charisma, than I want to see trash like brick laying, remover,and hand intervention.

My question was more of a suggestion really but of the two possible options presented #2 is far and away the more attractive. In fact I wouldn't purchase any random-sort of any kind, simply not interested at this point. If we're talking 'on demand' then I would want the ability to select the cards I'm purchasing. Especially at a premium (which we all seem to agree this would be).

It sounds like this is an effort to save the game by making cards readily available to players new and old. That's my hope anyway; that this is about the fanbase and not a money-grab. Cards' previous distribution or 'rarity' in my opinion really shouldn't come into play; we're talking about cost-to-print and making cards available right?

I truly hope this doesn't turn into a situation of trying to re-create a retail distribution type model (at a higher per-unit cost). I don't see how that would benefit new or old players, certainly not where I live anyway. I have no problem with the production team making a profit but please let’s leave rarity out of it. The game is great because it’s balanced without card limits. Open the gates in my opinion; we’re talking about saving a dying game aren’t we?

What I’d personally like to see are specific print-run price points. Specific sized card lots cost X amount to purchase (based primarily on production costs) and the buyer allowed to select the cards printed, any given card costs the same to produce.

Tiered print runs make sense (obviously a higher print run should = lower cost per unit). 12 vamps and 90 library cards makes the most sense to me as a baseline print order. But please, at this point, let everybody buy whatever cards they want or need, let’s leave scarcity out of it and please don’t try to make people buy cards they already have or didn’t want in the first place in order to get those they do.

Please. I’m talking about retaining and attracting players.

Two local long-time players with very deep collections have already sold their cards and a couple more have intentions to do the same. The main reasons are (1) we can’t replace ‘natural’ attrition in the playgroup and (2) the singles market is wildly inflated.

Retaining new players was a challenge (for an obscure CCG) when newbs could go online to Potomac and drop a few hundred bucks to get started, that was a tough sell. Now the only new players who stick around are the occasional deck borrower...

I’m saying fix those two issues and my playgroup comes back from the edge of the abyss. Let the newbs go to the site and design and purchase a complete deck. Who cares if it’s packed full of rares? I certainly don’t as long as it brings them to the table. IMO if you do this you will net more units sold than if you try to force people to buy cards they don’t want to get those they do. The singles market can go to hell as far as I’m concerned.

For the record; I have been playing since ’94. I have cards from every set. I have multiple copies of Enkil Cog, double-digit copies of Sensory Dep (examples already mentioned on this thread). If my collection isn’t complete I’m hard pressed to tell you what cards I don't have (I can only think if 1 from HttB but I'm sure there's a few). I don’t care if the perceived value declines, it’s happened many times before.

What good is any of it if nobody plays the game?

The Rarity System in VTES has usually been centered around functionality. The more narrow the functionality of the card, the more likely it is to be rare but also the stronger its 'narrow function' becomes.

This is different to the MtG method which seems to just be Common = Crap, Rare = Good, Ultra-rare = GODLY AWESOMENESS.


There are plenty of tournament winning decks that are almost exclusively Commons. They are broad functioning and not particularly powerful, hence they are used often and to good effect. I don't see this as an opportunity to topple that tradition. I do like the idea of being able to either 'pick-a-pack' or 'dial-a-booster'. Both of these give me the chance to do things like cater to my playerbase by making any 'common slots' cards that the newbies need and I don't (like my 99 WWEFs...)

I believe there will be necessarily pros and cons for both options. And it all comes to the problem of making the players happy. I will gladly order single cards, I will most likely buy a lot of boosters. Yet I would be very very unhappy, if I could order identically looking cards as those, that I had to pay for soooo much. Making the new and old prints distinguishable is, in my opinion, very important. Would the print on demand mean, that I could order 5 bloodlines Shrouds or 50 jyhad Freak drives? That is all I would like to know. Yes, as long as the players get the cards, the eminent threat of the game's final death is most likely dealt with (or postponed). But then again - why not play with proxies, if it wouldn't matter, what the cards look like?