exclamation-circle About diversity and inclusivity (including VEKN Rules Team Rulings 05/07/2020)

09 Jul 2020 14:30 #100321 by TwoRazorReign

darkal wrote: a big mistake has been done with this decision on a management level.


So what exactly is the big mistake? I think you need to see this from a business perspective, not a personal choice perspective. There is minimal risk to the business to ban these cards. Some will applaud it, some will accuse the company of caving to "SJ pressure" or whatever. With either reaction, there is no real harm here and therefore is no "mistake" for the business. What could possibly be a mistake is allowing cards with insensitive names to be used. This would open the door for both SJ warriors and normal folks alike to call the company racist, which the way the world is right now, could lead to a huge, HUGE mistake from a business perspective.
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09 Jul 2020 15:09 #100322 by Lönkka

darkal wrote: but again you don't understand what we're trying to tell you.

The problem is not in the card but in the banning for this reason. To put it simply, people who are in favor of these cards being banned want or will also want to ban others if nobody reacts.


Yes we do undertand you.
And the reason for the ban is JUST FINE.

darkal wrote: these people want to ban cards that will impact the game and this in depth.
A person like: Janne Lönnqvist is in favor, for example, of banning the Slavic trait, or Mind rape, segregation and many other cards.


Uh, no I most certainly am not!
Quite the contrary actually.

darkal wrote: If you let these people who obviously have a big influence on the decisions taken by the community speak without answering you will no longer have the same game in a very short time.
Again I apologize for my very low level of English and I hope you understand the idea I want to convey here


Probably your level of english was the key to misunderstanding my point I made in a email message sent in a PRIVATE EMAIL LIST.

The message I wrote did contain some concepts and terms (and perhaps with a bit of irony) that might be difficult to grasp with Google Translate, but it shouldn't have been overtly difficult as I'm also not a native english speaker and unable to write all that complex things in english.

But, PLEASE go read the message again.
If if contains big words you do not comprehend, do go to someone who has a better grasp of english and have them translate it to you.

After that, I would appreciate if you also went to the French VTES forum (which I'm not a part of) and correct these same unfounded claims about me you probably made there too.

You see, my view is 180 degrees different than what you are claiming here! it would be a shame if people got the wrong impression. And hung the cop as a robber, so to speak.

Also, I find it ridiculous that you suggest that I (among other people) should not be allowed to have a say in the matters, most likely since the opinion, which you perceived to be exactly _opposite_ which it was. (You also claimed that I have big influence which I couldn't disagree more. It is a preposterous claim, monsieur! I'm barely responsible for myself...)

I find it very scary a thought that people who don't seem to have a reasonably good grasp at english, which has been used for international communication related to VTES, are making decisions, and in this case fanning the flames of outrage (with 100% false claims) yet I'm not advocating people against you.


TOO LONG; DIDN'T READ:
-Read that message again.
-If there are things you are not 100% sure you understand, ask somebody who has better grasp of english.
-Notice that you claim my opinion to be exactly OPPOSITE of what it was.
-Sit down. Breathe. Pat yourself in the back and pour yourself a nice glass of yummy Pernod for a job well done!

Peace, mate!

NC, Finland
Finnish :POT: Politics!
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09 Jul 2020 21:22 - 09 Jul 2020 21:22 #100328 by Lech
FOR_SELF_BIASED [ Click to expand ]

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Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.
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10 Jul 2020 04:37 #100330 by BenPeal
Hi Alain,

I direct your attention to statements I made on this same topic two years ago:

www.vekn.net/forum/generic-v-tes-discussion/76821-card-name-change-suggestion?start=66#89091

To summarize, with the exception of Tarbaby Jack (who came later), the cards with the strongest problems come from the beginning days of V:TES. White Wolf made a progression of changes with the Ravnos in later editions of V:TM and V:TES. So the process to improve things really started 19 years ago. I think it would be a mistake for us to not acknowledge those changes.

I think there are still problems with some later cards. There have been many improvements, yes, but it's still not great and we wouldn't write these characters or design these cards that way today. But I don't think the problems are as strong as they were in the beginning and I think we can respect and acknowledge the improvements.

So after two years, in the interest of valuing other communities, treating them well, and being more inviting and welcoming to this game, we made a decision on 5 cards. Not 10. Not 100. Not 1000. Not the entire Ravnos. 5 cards.

We reserve the right to continue to review cards and make decisions we feel are necessary. If such a decision needs to be made again, my expectation is that such a decision will also happen much later and will only affect a few cards - and only if a decision happens at all.

At the same time, please understand that we do not make these changes lightly or on a whim or because anyone is whispering in our ears. Please understand that we respect the content of this game and the intentions of the designers. Please understand that the decisions made on the cards are not a statement against the players of V:TES.

Regarding the concerns about replacement cards, in our public statement we said that we we will design new cards as replacements, where possible. There are behind-the-scenes reasons why this might not be possible or why replacing cards might not be as quick as we would like. These reasons can include (and are not limited to) the time it takes to get new artwork and getting approval from WW/Paradox. It is also an opportunity to make game balance improvements on the cards, and these changes need to be playtested. If you are part of the playtest team, you will see some of these cards very soon.

As for how we will make those cards available, we're working on a viable plan for that. It will probably be in the form of a promo pack, but I don't want to give 100% confirmation on that because we're still determining what is permissible for us. You'll probably see the cards available in upcoming starter decks (as that is what we will playtest soon), but they will not be exclusive to those decks.

I hope that what I have said addresses your concerns and calms your fears. I appreciate your passion and dedication to V:TES, as well as your friendship.


- Ben Peal
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10 Jul 2020 14:11 #100334 by darkal

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13 Jul 2020 05:17 #100342 by Charles_Bronson
Great explanation ben. Thank you and thanks BCP for everything.

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