Proxy Comunity

KevinM wrote:

First, I'm not a VEKN representative,

direwolf wrote:

You are a moderator on these forums.

Not quite correct. I'm a moderator on ONE of the forums. Not this one, and not a public forum, either. Because VEKN has granted me moderator-status on a single forum does not make me a representative of the VEKN, except on that single forum. I'm sorry the software doesn't allow the users to see this clearly.

KevinM wrote:

And what legal research have you done to know this for certain?

direwolf wrote:

My statement was based on the assumption that VEKN as an organization was interested in covering its ass should someone decide to sue.

No, you made a statement about liability. Either you have knowledge that the VEKN would like to know about regarding liability, or you were talking out of your butt. If you do, then, again: I await your legal brief to the VEKN on the subject.

Reyda wrote:

direwolf wrote:

But that means there isn't any money to mount a defense against someone like this asshole .

Wow. What a complete, total ass. I bet he sees himself as an evil genius of some kind. The M of his middle name must stand for "Majornuisance"

Google his name and you will see that his case is falling apart. Maybe he will learn too late that just because the law gives you the ability to do something doesn't mean that you should.

Evolution at work people... Just when you think things are idiot proof, the universe makes you a better idiot.

brandonsantacruz wrote:

Google his name

With or without the M?

The problem I see in all this discussion is that nobody is asking (himself and the community) the two key questions about proxies:

1. Are proxies positive for the game (different reasons, new recruits, more deck archetype innovation etc.)?

2. Have proxies a possible negative aspect that can influence the game (card value, metagame, possible licence buying etc.)?


If we analyze this two aspects (let's say, PRO/CONTRA), I think we can come to an easy solution. Let's say (if the VEKN agrees) we accept proxies because of its PRO's, the thing should be minimize the negative impact on the game. I've been thinking about this quite a long time and I think that I have a proposal.


The positive side on proxies (as many people have said), is that they allow new people to build decks without a great money investment. They certainly will play with proxies in friendly games, but the problem comes when they wish to play a tournament and don't have the cards to play them. It's true that usually V:tES players are kind and let newbies borrow the cards, but new players not always have that chance. Given that this is almost a "dead" game (until further news we could certainly say it's in "coma"), it's not only always a monetary reason, but it's not that easy most of the times to get certain cards or to simply build normal decks.

It MAY be positive if the VEKN allowed a certain % of proxies in official tournaments and charged a "tax" for the proxy use. Let's say a normal tournament costs 5€ to participate. A person that plays with 10% proxies could pay 5€ + 5€ proxy "tax" or with (let's say as maximum) 20% proxies with 10€ proxy "tax" (plus the normal 5€ participation costs).

Now that the game is kinda stopped, this "tax" could be used for prizes, so people that actually have invested more money in cards and play without proxies have a lower participation cost and people that don't owe all the cards pay a little bit more, which reverts in the own community in more prizes for all participants. In the future this "tax" could be set by the owner of the licence (if they want to keep it) or could be used as I now described, since more prizes means more money the company wins by selling starters and boosters for tournament use.


I don't know if my idea is clear, but I don't think a company will disagree in a certain percentage of proxies if there is a sort of "tax" that benefits them economically in some way and players that actually have a great pool card shouldn't feel in disadvantage because there are players that are playing tournaments without actually owning the cards.

The thing to be done is just ask the community and the company, if there's an agreement I don't think why it shouldn't be done.


PD: Sorry for my crappy English, I hope everything is understandable.

@cardovador:

VEKN does not require tournament organizers to provide prize support, nor does VEKN require organizers to collect fees for the tournaments. Both of those would be requirements in order to "tax" as you have put it.

It would also be unpopular. It is basically taxing the poor and giving to the rich. You want to charge players who use proxies more, so there is more prize support for everyone. Who do you think will win the prizes? The more experienced players, who can play without using proxies.

Proxies aren't going to matter until such a time comes that we can no longer buy sealed cards. By not allowing proxies, VEKN is encouraging us to buy up the rest of the cards Rose Tatu (U.S.) and Walch & Nusser (Europe.)

If you want VEKN to seriously consider proxies, buy some cards.

If you want to help new players get some cards, organize a tournament that allows proxies and offer prize support, with the caveat that the prize support only go to the new players. Often enough, I've seen the winners of tournaments give away most of the cards they win to the new players anyway.