Which Master do you most hate to see played in a tournament?

Izaak wrote:

And that's how accurate it gets. Of course, in a world where people play extremely defensive and are more occupied with staying alive and controlling the table instead of killing their preys such decks THRIVE.

This totally makes sense but people has always played extremely defensive. Play style hasn't changed and it is useless to blame people playing "bad". Now many decks just seem not to focus on fast ousts which benefits the decks trying to build up for end game. Start making Kindred Spirits decks again and meta might shift to another direction. Slow meta of course benefits for decks which plan to be strong in end game. Girls will shine in the end when there are many ICs in your side and good cards in your lib. Maybe try to counter Ashurs with faster decks.

It would also be good discussion if small cap S&B decks might actually need some stronger cards. I don't see those kind of decks very often anymore. Scourge made some fast decks risky because you might get countered by one card. Villein also made fast decks worse. Balance might favor "bit slow and building up for end" decks now but it is all about the meta.

Surreal wrote:

This totally makes sense but people has always played extremely defensive. Play style hasn't changed and it is useless to blame people playing "bad". Now many decks just seem not to focus on fast ousts which benefits the decks trying to build up for end game.

There is a consideral social consideration in playing slower deck. No malkavian deck can survive to an entire table against them, while appearing as direct threat to about anyone on the table, and it make playing quick deck much more demanding in table talk skill.

And table talk does not do everything. Surviving until the point where the table begin to crumble and then making your move is a sound strategy in VtES. Deck good in end game are much more likely to pull this off than quick stealth bleed.

Surreal wrote:

It would also be good discussion if small cap S&B decks might actually need some stronger cards. I don't see those kind of decks very often anymore. Scourge made some fast decks risky because you might get countered by one card. Villein also made fast decks worse. Balance might favor "bit slow and building up for end" decks now but it is all about the meta.

The meta don't do everything. Still, quick deck need mainly way to build up without threatening people. Bleed are brutal enough as they are, it's more that if the table is not ready for a quick oust of your prey, you more or less waste your turn with your hand full of kindred spirit.

Ohlmann wrote:

The meta don't do everything. Still, quick deck need mainly way to build up without threatening people. Bleed are brutal enough as they are, it's more that if the table is not ready for a quick oust of your prey, you more or less waste your turn with your hand full of kindred spirit.

Meta is also how the people play the game. I haven't ever understand players who jump instantly to gank the fast deck if the deck is getting a VP somewhere in cross table. But I feel Vtes has become more control also. There are more actions happening now (like simple rushing) effecting other players minions because that is stronger play with the decks building up and relaying more in the end game. Control aspects are very bad for fast decks because those decks rarely has anything to protect. You can put some protective cards but then you are sacrificing the fastness. But I feel simple S&B are not good anymore.

EDIT This might be happening because players are way more experienced now. You rarely have good ways to control anything in the table with fast decks. You just rely your deck working if play with a fast deck and you can't adapt any changes happening in the table. So even with great skill you can't do so much with fast bleed decks. This might one reason why experienced players don't like them.

Surreal wrote:

EDIT This might be happening because players are way more experienced now. You rarely have good ways to control anything in the table with fast decks. You just rely your deck working if play with a fast deck and you can't adapt any changes happening in the table. So even with great skill you can't do so much with fast bleed decks. This might one reason why experienced players don't like them.

Exactly

Ashur wrote:

Yeah. That´s why a competent, impartial, unpretentious design team, more playtesters/playtesting and a totally transparent design process are a good ideas.

Preach it, brother.