question-circle Pentex Subversion Poll #2 and Discussion

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Poll: Possible fixes for Pentex Subversion

Total number of voters: 0
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24 Jun 2012 04:23 #32439 by Jeff Kuta
I have become convinced that this card must exist, much as I hate it (and think it's undercosted).

I think it should cost 3 pool and be left for the other card text.

When you are anvil, be patient; when a hammer, strike.
:CEL::DOM::OBF::POT::QUI:
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24 Jun 2012 04:38 #32440 by Spore Mage
"Im against errata, ban it or leave it be."

Agreed, when possible, and do not think this rises to the level of needing a ban at all.

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24 Jun 2012 04:52 - 24 Jun 2012 04:52 #32441 by Robba Yaga
If anyone loses because of this card, it was likely that it was used just before a lunge, so changing how long it lasts is pointless. I just do not see many times that this card changes the outcome of a table. So in my mind, its not as powerful as people seem to think. Leave it alone.

For the record, I am MUCH more in favor of errata than banning. There are some card banned that could have simply been neutered, saving them from wallpaper status.
Last edit: 24 Jun 2012 04:52 by Robba Yaga.

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24 Jun 2012 06:03 #32442 by Joscha
I often saw Pentex Subversion altering the outcome of a table. In my opinion the biggest problem of PS is that it threatens star vampire decks very much. In addition it is very frustrating to get your first minion out pentexed as in the early stages of a game the others don't have ressources to help you. To counter these two points I'm for the change that the pentexed minion can remove the card with a d-action. That way PS is still a good tool against blocking decks, which is good IMHO, but doesn't shut down few big minion-decks completely, as the minion can do the removal at least (and so get into combat for example or push the action through with stealth).

The third problem of PS is the repeatable use with cards that allow recursion like Anthelios. Against that the above mentioned change wouldn't work. But then again you could add cards that can handle the resources granting the recursion.

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24 Jun 2012 07:32 #32444 by Cyrus

Joscha wrote: I often saw Pentex Subversion altering the outcome of a table. In my opinion the biggest problem of PS is that it threatens star vampire decks very much. In addition it is very frustrating to get your first minion out pentexed as in the early stages of a game the others don't have ressources to help you. To counter these two points I'm for the change that the pentexed minion can remove the card with a d-action. That way PS is still a good tool against blocking decks, which is good IMHO, but doesn't shut down few big minion-decks completely, as the minion can do the removal at least (and so get into combat for example or push the action through with stealth).

The third problem of PS is the repeatable use with cards that allow recursion like Anthelios. Against that the above mentioned change wouldn't work. But then again you could add cards that can handle the resources granting the recursion.



How about a: If the minion with PS is the only ready minion controlled by the Meth, [option to burn pool to remove or some sort of action removal clause]?

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24 Jun 2012 09:16 #32449 by Temporis
I would be very happy with the targetted minion being able to remove the card. Something like:

Put this card on any ready minion. The minion with this card cannot take actions, other than to burn this card, and cannot block actions. This card may be burned by any other minion as a (D) action.

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