check Impulse, The As Played Window and You...

21 Sep 2011 13:16 #10699 by Izaak
Then again, the action card is also replaced before DI gets to be played making most of this discussion moot anyway.

You last post makes me wonder though. You imply here that you first play the card and go like "superior Govern". Then people get to DI and everything and after that you decide which guy it's on which is the actual action announcement. This is not be the way people play cards in practice. You go like "superior Govern to this guy here". I'd assume this is how it's supposed to work?

Or, can you -theoretially- put a Bum's Rush on the table, have it not DI'd immediately and when you point at a crosstable minion (after giving everyone a reasonable time to decide if they want to DI or not) nobody can DI the card now because you went into the announcing the action phase.

That seems an awfully confusing timing window that is there just because of, like, 3 cards that cancel cards as they are being played.

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21 Sep 2011 13:39 #10707 by Brum
No, Izaak.
Please Pascal's last sentence:

Declaring terms is done before DI gets to be played. Hence, I suppose, the confusion of the OP.


You declare where you're going to put the blood from :DOM: Govern or the cards you're fetching with Sudario Refraction, or where you target Bum's Rush.
You replace and people can DI your action.

Followup questions for mr. Bertrand:
I tap Enkil Cog on Arika and play Mind Rape at :DOM:.
I say who's mind Arika rapes and somebody plays a DI.
My replace was Sudden Reversal.

Q1 - Can I play Sudden to cancel DI?

Q2 - If I choose not to or can't play Sudden, is the tapping of Enkil Cog considered a cost of the action, therefore DI also untaps it? (I think not, but it doesn't hurt to ask)

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21 Sep 2011 13:54 #10712 by Ankha

Followup questions for mr. Bertrand:
I tap Enkil Cog on Arika and play Mind Rape at :DOM:.
I say who's mind Arika rapes and somebody plays a DI.
My replace was Sudden Reversal.

Q1 - Can I play Sudden to cancel DI?

No, you replace after the window for DI has been closed.

Q2 - If I choose not to or can't play Sudden, is the tapping of Enkil Cog considered a cost of the action, therefore DI also untaps it? (I think not, but it doesn't hurt to ask)


LSJ: "The Cog is still tapped, but as the vampire hasn't yet attempted an action (the
canceled action card's action isn't attempted), you can still attempt an action.

Or you may choose not to (since there is no default action) and let the Cog's
"attempt action" effect fizzle."

games.groups.yahoo.com/group/vtes-rules/message/311?var=1

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
The following user(s) said Thank You: Brum

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21 Sep 2011 14:13 #10714 by Pascal Bertrand

Followup questions for mr. Bertrand:
I tap Enkil Cog on Arika and play Mind Rape at :DOM:.
I say who's mind Arika rapes and somebody plays a DI.
My replace was Sudden Reversal.

Q1 - Can I play Sudden to cancel DI?

No, you replace after the window for DI has been closed.

Well, to be a bit more precise, I'll quote the rulebook:
Rulebook 1.6.1.1 wrote:

Some effects can cancel a card "as it is played." These effects (and effects that grant the ability to play them, like Forced Awakening) are the only effects allowed during the "as played" time period of another card. Even drawing to replace cards comes after this time period.


The Enkil Cog link is correct.

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21 Sep 2011 14:40 #10717 by Brum
Thanks. Then, another followup Q:

What is the difference between...

"Tap this card to attempt an action" - Enkil Cog, not a cost.

and

"Burn to bleed at +1 bleed as a (D) action." - Strike with Conviction, a cost.

?

I'm rather tired and sleepy, so there might be something obvious I'm overlooking.

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21 Sep 2011 15:38 #10727 by Izaak

No, you replace after the window for DI has been closed.


Oh wow. That's actually in the rulebook too.

Ya know, in all fairness judges and players in general should be very aware of this. It means that people that are considering to DI should make this very clear very fast. Because, ya know, when the card is replaced the window for DI closed. DI gets played a LOT after some discussion on a certain play. Since it's impractical to ask for a DI after every card you play, it's up to the guy playing the DI to play the card properly.

I've been in or witnessed many a situation where a, say, Parity Shift was put on the table and excessive discussion took place -before block attempts- who and why would potentially be the target and where the pool would go-. Then when the discussion isn't going in someone's favor (long, long after replacing the card) he goes like "ah whatever I'll just DI it". This is clearly illegal play, but I've seen it happen in the finals continental qualifiers and national championships so clearly players and judges are not aware of this.

Or, ya know, just ban DI and DI2 :)

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