Impulse, The As Played Window and You...

Pascal wrote:

Brum wrote:

Thanks. Then, another followup Q:

What is the difference between...

"Tap this card to attempt an action" - Enkil Cog, not a cost.

and

"Burn to bleed at +1 bleed as a action." - Strike with Conviction, a cost.

?

I'm rather tired and sleepy, so there might be something obvious I'm overlooking.

To be honest, the change I see is that the second one has a ruling ( [LSJ 20060421] ), and the first one doesn't.

However, I'm putting the wording of SwC to the list of things to monitor.

I thank you for you honesty.

There are Rulings on both cards as "being or not cost" is concerned.

For this specific point (if the effect of the card in question is "cost" or not), I think both have the same type of wording and opposite rulings.
Both state something along the format "do X to attempt Y".
I assume every action starts with its "attempt", ie fulfilling a set of prerequisites in order for the Action to start (tapping a minion, clan/sect/title/etc. restrictions, being able to pay, etc)

wow! While writing this, the following hit me:
You pay every cost -after- the Action resolves without block.
Therefore, regardless of Rulings, neither use of those cards should count as cost, just as prerequisite.

You tap Enkil Cog before you declare the Action. If it is Lucinde playing Parity Shift, you have 3 prerequisites there: Enkil Cog, Prince or Justicar and less pool then someone else.
If someone DI's it, she'll still be Justicar and Enkil Cog will still let her act.

IF you burn Strike with Conviction when you declare the action, again it should be a prerequisite for that action.
If you only burn it after the action is completed, then it is cost.
As simple as that, I think.

So:

Q3: Do you tap Enkil Cog in the same stage in-between-actions that people can use Heidelberg Castle?
I would say no. I would go as far as saying nobody gets Impulse until the Player using the Cog declares the Action.

Q4: When exactly do you burn Strike with Conviction (assuming the Action is not blocked)?

Brum wrote:

wow! While writing this, the following hit me:
You pay every cost -after- the Action resolves without block.
Therefore, regardless of Rulings, neither use of those cards should count as cost, just as prerequisite.

No. Pay cost of the action when it is successful, before resolution.
Example: Pay 1 blood for Torrent Fleetness before entering combat. Pay 3 pool for Veles' Hunt before choosing terms.

Brum wrote:

You tap Enkil Cog before you declare the Action. If it is Lucinde playing Parity Shift, you have 3 prerequisites there: Enkil Cog, Prince or Justicar and less pool then someone else.
If someone DI's it, she'll still be Justicar and Enkil Cog will still let her act.

IF you burn Strike with Conviction when you declare the action, again it should be a prerequisite for that action.
If you only burn it after the action is completed, then it is cost.
As simple as that, I think.

One side-effect of the current wording is that, if you tap the Ambulance after a combat in which the Imbued burned the SwC to have the Imbued's SwC continue, it will fizzle.

Brum wrote:

So:

Q3: Do you tap Enkil Cog in the same stage in-between-actions that people can use Heidelberg Castle?
I would say no. I would go as far as saying nobody gets Impulse until the Player using the Cog declares the Action.

Correct. [LSJ 20090209]

Brum wrote:

Q4: When exactly do you burn Strike with Conviction (assuming the Action is not blocked)?

Right before resolution, when action is successful. [LSJ 20070831]
It works just like Bomb.

Pascal wrote:

No. Pay cost of the action when it is successful, before resolution.
Example: Pay 1 blood for Torrent before entering combat. Pay 3 pool for Veles' Hunt before choosing terms.

Sorry that's what I meant.
And I don't think you mean Torrent, I think you mean Fleetness.

We're both over this for a long time today.

Better call it a night.

EDIT:

Pascal wrote:

One side-effect of the current wording is that, if you tap the Ambulance after a combat in which the Imbued burned the SwC to have the Imbued's SwC continue, it will fizzle.

Just like a vampire with one declaring a Govern and using a Elder Impersonation during block attempts.
Govern fizzels if there is no block.

So, once again, SwC is cost and Enkil Cog is prerequisite.

Goodnight people!
My pElvis has left the building.

Ankha wrote:

Pascal wrote:

Resolving block attempts

6. Reacting Methuselahs can't gain intercept if their attempt to block has at least the same amount of intercept than the action has stealth. If blocking Methuselah declines using the impulse (for doing things such as tapping the KRCG, playing Enhanced Senses, ...) then we follow the usual path (prey / pred / grand prey / grand pred). If one of these players uses the Impulse (taps KRCG, plays Babble, uses Maris' special ability, plays a Wake, ...), the Impulse goes back to the acting Methuselah [goto step 5]. Otherwise, when everyone has passed, if stealth > intercept, block attampt fails [goto step 3], or if stealth <= intercept, block attempt is successful [goto step 7].[/li]

It should be mentioned that, as long as stealth <= intercept, the target of the action can't be changed.

Well, that's quite incorrrect. It happens with Deflection and bleed redirecters because of explicit cardtext. However, it is still perfectly legal to steal someone's vampire via Temptation and, thus, change the targets of the action.
What's missing is that you can't back out.