file Old ruling on Outside the Hourglass' range

23 Nov 2011 20:29 #15687 by islandofyiaros
OK so I was reading this earlier today:
groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_thread/thread/8fdf1aa852058e71/9986eee877b370bb?q=outside+the+hourglass+environmental

and it got me thinking this is correct:

I bleed with Shalmath
Fletcher blocks with Amelia, the Blood Red Tears with Improvised Flamethrower
I don't play Domain of Evernight :)

Before range, I play Outside the Hourglass at {TEM}.
During determine range, I play Outside the Hourglass at [tem] and maneuver.
Range is long. Strike is dodge; no presses.

I want to play Disarm. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Improvised Flamethrower did not burn because OtH didn't do damage at range, and Disarm can't be played because OtH didn't do damage at close?

Just making sure.

If not, then what?
If so, how is this different than saying OtH didn't do damage at long OR close?

-- Brian

P.S. I know currently OtH + no maneuver + Disarm works, as Floppy told me in person. Just checking it's possible for the OtH damage to be "done at close" when it's played, and then retroactively changed to having been "done at long" later.

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23 Nov 2011 20:50 #15693 by Smaul
When outside the ourglass is played range is close, then improvised ain't burn. As you used another OtH to maneouver to long, combat was at long range, so you can't play disarm. Disarm requires the combat to be close to be played, but ImpF just looks when the damage is dealt to burn, so as it was close range it doesn't burn.
If in a given situation you plaed selective silence to set the range and then OtH, the ImpF would burn.

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23 Nov 2011 21:55 - 23 Nov 2011 22:06 #15698 by islandofyiaros
OK, I'll go in depth here. Question to LSJ from Vincent:

>What if the opposing minion B is not sent to torpor and someone sets
>the round to long afterward?
>Can A play Pulled Fangs since A dealt more damage at close range
>(before range was determined)?
>Or are the damage from Outside the Hourglass considered to be dealt at
>long range?

LSJ replies:

>> What if the opposing minion B is not sent to torpor and someone sets
>> the round to long afterward?
>> Can A play Pulled Fangs since A dealt more damage at close range
>> (before range was determined)?
>
>No.
>
>> Or are the damage from Outside the Hourglass considered to be dealt at
>> long range?
>
>Sure.

This makes it seem like maneuvering causes the damage to retroactively be dealt at long. Two posts later, LSJ explains his "sure" here means "I guess not":

>> If minion B would've had an Improvised Flamethrower equipped, would xe
>> take 2 aggravated damage as soon as the range was set to long in the
>> above case?
>
>No.
>
>(Making the "sure" above an "I guess not -- but the point is that the
>range is long")

See for yourself in context.

Anyway I was clear with his initial ruling, but what he said afterward sounded like a reversal. Also Floppy said (or seemed to say--my memory's not great) that damage from Outside the Hourglass does damage at whatever the default range is for the round (which is always close, barring Fear of the Void Below).

So anyway, I guess I could have saved everyone the trouble by just posting, "Hey Pascal, does what you said about OtH in Poland overturn this stuff here?" Or of course there's the third option that I misunderstood him.

But still, I want to be really clear here. It's important to my "Give Fred Head" deck (which is Shalmath with Disarm + Decapitate).
Last edit: 23 Nov 2011 22:06 by islandofyiaros.

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