file Order of ending effects?

11 Mar 2012 08:21 - 11 Mar 2012 08:22 #25587 by AaronC
Replied by AaronC on topic Re: Order of ending effects?
Again you're finding good references. I think that that is a very piecemeal way to deal with it.

Instead why not just say "every effect in a phase/timing window can be ordered including card replacement" for the sake of consistency? Everyone replaces first anyway so they can work with a maximum hand size.

Or if the replacement has to happen first (and he seems to have just made it up right there) why not have a printed rule that says "card replacement and hand size change effects occur before any other effects in a phase or timing window".

I like universal rules like that.

(So tell me why I play VTES again :huh: )
Last edit: 11 Mar 2012 08:22 by AaronC.

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12 Mar 2012 01:27 - 12 Mar 2012 13:31 #25644 by Robert Scythe

"Your turn ends" is a separate timing window of the Discard Phase in the rules reference, too. Another case in which local longer-time players have passed on wrong information!


And how, pray tell, have these "local longer-time players" (whoever they could be) mislead you (yet again, apparently) in your eyes, since this statement seems to have nothing to do with your discussion other than to dis these players?
Last edit: 12 Mar 2012 13:31 by Damnans.

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12 Mar 2012 13:29 #25671 by Damnans

"Your turn ends" is a separate timing window of the Discard Phase in the rules reference, too. Another case in which local longer-time players have passed on wrong information!


And how, pray tell, have these "local longer-time players" (whoever the fuck they could be) mislead you (yet again, apparently) in your eyes, since this statement seems to have nothing to do with your discussion other than to dis these assholes?


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13 Mar 2012 09:19 - 13 Mar 2012 09:20 #25729 by Pascal Bertrand

Here is something that came up and am not sure of which is the right answer.

Henri Lavenant enters combat with someone, your hand size goes up to 8, then he plays a card in the combat that is not replaced until end of combat, going back down to hand size 7. Now what happens when the combat ends?

Option 1: You discard down to hand size from his special to 6 cards, then draw back up to replace the card you played in the combat.
Option 2: You draw up to your hand size from the card you played in the combat, then discard down to hand size when Henri's special runs out.
Option 3: You can choose which of the above to do.
Option 4: They end at same time so you don't draw or discard anything but keep your hand of 7 cards.

Name: Henri Lavenant
[BH:U2]
Cardtype: Vampire
Clan: Lasombra
Group: 3
Capacity: 7
Discipline: pot qui DOM OBT
Sabbat. Black Hand: You have +1 hand size while Henri is in combat.
Artist: Christopher Shy

I'd say the +1 handsize and the "do not replace" cause end at the same time, cf link given by TorranceCircle : [LSJ 20070225] , which has to be considered with [LSJ 20020205] , "cards you do not replace count against your handsize"


I'm still looking for other examples - they're welcome.
Last edit: 13 Mar 2012 09:20 by Pascal Bertrand.

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13 Mar 2012 18:55 - 13 Mar 2012 18:57 #25763 by AaronC
Replied by AaronC on topic Re: Order of ending effects?

I'd say the +1 handsize and the "do not replace" cause end at the same time, cf link given by TorranceCircle : [LSJ 20070225] , which has to be considered with [LSJ 20020205] , "cards you do not replace count against your handsize"

I'm still looking for other examples - they're welcome.


That is an elegant way to handle it - considering "do not replace" clauses the same as +/- hand size effects. The question of timing remains. Once you've decided how to handle it, I bet you could add a single sentence to the rules to clarify the matter.

IMO, it would be the easiest to say that hand size changes are resolved before any other effects in a given timing window, and that seems to agree with what LSJ has written. You've established that you add pluses and minuses together before determining a new hand size, so all changes would be "simultaneous."
Last edit: 13 Mar 2012 18:57 by AaronC.

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