Shortcuts in VtES Official Games

Hugh, I think your methods are reasonable, and I nominate you to update the Judges' Guidelines

I don't know if the cited guideline that refers to an offending player not gaining an advantage is what always happens in practice. In Los Angeles (whose reputation in years past probably led to the "Points of Light" "can't forget a phase" ruling), it is often understood that any rollback is total. You take stuff back, and then you get to play stuff over. That isn't to say that a rollback is the same thing as an adjustment in pool or blood counters.

In the examples of declaring an action you can't pay for without ousting yourself or failing to declare the use of any transfers in your second turn before taking your discard phase action, the person making the mistake certainly has something to gain by the rollback.

Pascal wrote:

@Kevin: What if, instead of "2 seconds", I had written "1 minute" or "5 minutes"? Would A still have been the biggest cheater in the world?

Clearly not.

Pascal wrote:

We each have our own perception of how long it should take to determine whether or not to play a card.

Watch carefully the players in your group/other groups/major tournaments that you KNOW are jerks. They will do things EXACTLY like in your example, trying to gain a mental advantage by not using a single verbal or physical cue for the other player(s). Because they are jerks.

AaronC wrote:

Hugh, I think your methods are reasonable, and I nominate you to update the Judges' Guidelines
.

in progress....(slightly delayed by playtesting)

Cyrus wrote:

Wasn't there a championship where someone accidentally self ousted with a magnom, but LSJ decided it should be rolled back because the player did not announce the cost while playing it?

The EC in Barcelona, I believe. I was playing with a weenie Cel gun deck, had 3 pool, Concealed out a .44, and then my predator claimed I was ousted because I forgot to lose a pool for an Anarch Revolt. We called LSJ over and he rewound the game back to the untap phase and we played on from there.

BenPeal wrote:

Cyrus wrote:

Wasn't there a championship where someone accidentally self ousted with a magnom, but LSJ decided it should be rolled back because the player did not announce the cost while playing it?

The EC in Barcelona, I believe. I was playing with a weenie Cel gun deck, had 3 pool, Concealed out a .44, and then my predator claimed I was ousted because I forgot to lose a pool for an Anarch Revolt. We called LSJ over and he rewound the game back to the untap phase and we played on from there.

what, he really knew you forgot to pay but chose to mention it at that point to "rulebully" you or was it honnest from his part that he realized only at this point ?

Reyda wrote:

BenPeal wrote:

Cyrus wrote:

Wasn't there a championship where someone accidentally self ousted with a magnom, but LSJ decided it should be rolled back because the player did not announce the cost while playing it?

The EC in Barcelona, I believe. I was playing with a weenie Cel gun deck, had 3 pool, Concealed out a .44, and then my predator claimed I was ousted because I forgot to lose a pool for an Anarch Revolt. We called LSJ over and he rewound the game back to the untap phase and we played on from there.

what, he really knew you forgot to pay but chose to mention it at that point to "rulebully" you or was it honnest from his part that he realized only at this point ?

It was 10 years ago, so I don't remember that part of it (or even who won the game). I just remember that he was insistent that I was ousted and I was very keen on not being ousted, so we called over LSJ.