Does Catatonic Fear + Target Vitals work?

18 Mar 2013 15:55 #46141 by Ankha

Replied by Ankha on topic Re: Does Catatonic Fear + Target Vitals work?

Shockwave wrote:
(The two cards were worded differently, but actually inflict the damage in the same way, afaik.)

I have a doubt about this.
Catatonic Fear: the damage is inflicted by the vampire playing it.
Loving Agony: the damage is "environmental".

Target Vitals work for both (since both strikes inflict damage) but the source of the damage is not the same.

Name: Catatonic Fear
Cardtype: Combat
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Presence

 Strike: combat ends.

 As above, and inflict 1 damage to the opposing minion once combat ends if the range is close.



Name: Loving Agony

Cardtype: Combat

Cost: 1 blood

Discipline: Valeren/Animalism

Only usable at close range.

[ani] Strike: hand strike at +1 damage.

[val] Strike: combat ends and the opposing minion takes 1 damage.

[VAL] As [val] above, and this vampire may burn 1 blood to untap before combat ends.

Prince of Paris, France

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Ankha
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19 Mar 2013 03:03 #46153 by Juggernaut1981

Replied by Juggernaut1981 on topic Re: Does Catatonic Fear + Target Vitals work?

Both of the forms of damage are bound to the strike.
They are both "S:CE and XYZ" (like Majesty). So when you declare the strike you may also play TV (choosing the strike) and TV only checks "Did this strike deal damage?" and not "Was damage inflicted on the opposing minion by this striking minion?" (i.e. it is not worded Disarm). If the strike deals damage (including environmental damage) then the TV triggers itself and adds 2 to that damage.

If you S:D either Catatonic or Loving Agony you should, because you avoid all effects of a strike which targets you by using a S:D, avoid the damage outside combat of both cards and neutralise TV.

Target Vitals
Type: Combat
Aim. Play when choosing a strike.
If any damage from this strike is successfully inflicted on the opposing minion, he or she takes an additional 2 damage from this strike, and he or she cannot press this round. The opposing minion may discard two combat cards [COMBAT] to cancel this card. A minion may play only one aim each strike.

Disarm
Type: Combat
Requires: Potence
[pot] Only usable at the end of a round of combat in which this vampire successfully inflicted more damage at close range than the opposing vampire. Not usable by a vampire being burned or going into torpor. Put this card on the opposing vampire and send that vampire into torpor. The vampire with this card has -1 strength. He or she may burn this card by burning 3 blood. A vampire can have only one Disarm.
[POT] As above, but the vampire with this card has -2 strength.

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Juggernaut1981
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19 Mar 2013 05:59 #46154 by Ankha

Replied by Ankha on topic Re: Does Catatonic Fear + Target Vitals work?

@Juggernaut: yes, I was just pointing out that Loving Agony was "environmental" damage, whereas Catatonic Fear is inflicted by the minion.
It could matter if Saulot is in combat with Nergal (with valeren). Saulot wouldn't take any damage from a Catatonic Fear, but would take damage from a Loving Agony.

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Ankha
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19 Mar 2013 09:03 #46156 by Juggernaut1981

Replied by Juggernaut1981 on topic Re: Does Catatonic Fear + Target Vitals work?

Ankha wrote:
@Juggernaut: yes, I was just pointing out that Loving Agony was "environmental" damage, whereas Catatonic Fear is inflicted by the minion.
It could matter if Saulot is in combat with Nergal (with valeren). Saulot wouldn't take any damage from a Catatonic Fear, but would take damage from a Loving Agony.

I was just making the difference between TV and Disarm's check for the damage. TV checks the strike, Disarm checks the minion.

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19 Mar 2013 09:10 #46157 by wesile

Replied by wesile on topic Re: Does Catatonic Fear + Target Vitals work?

Hum... why is disarm added to this conversation? - You cannot play disarm after catatonic fear...

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19 Mar 2013 09:15 #46158 by Juggernaut1981

Replied by Juggernaut1981 on topic Re: Does Catatonic Fear + Target Vitals work?

wesile wrote:
Hum... why is disarm added to this conversation? - You cannot play disarm after catatonic fear...

Wesile, because TV (and the other Targets) don't make the 'usual' check. Most of the other cards check the damage from the minions. TV checks damage from the strike. Consequently, TV will work on any strike that deals damage (even Catatonic Fear and Loving Agony or any future strike) even if that card deals environmental damage as part of its strike.