file Is Tracker's Mark playable by a vampire going to torpor?

25 Jul 2013 22:10 - 25 Jul 2013 22:11 #52265 by AaronC

Tracker's Mark

:combat:

!salu!

Play when the opposing minion burns blood or life due to damage. Put this card on the opposing minion. This Salubri antitribu gets +1 intercept when attempting to block the minion with this card. If the vampire with this card is Tremere or Baali, this Salubri antitribu can enter combat with him or her as a (D) action. The minion with this card may burn it as a +1 stealth action. A vampire can play only one Tracker's Mark each combat.


Mr. Wedge brought up this point in a game some time ago in which I was trying out a !salu! wall deck. I gave him a reason for "yes", but I'm not really sure.

It seems that this card could be played during the "resolve each point of damage in turn" portion of combat, VII.a. in the CRR, even if the !salu! is going to go to torpor during the "Check for vampires going to torpor" phase of combat.

Curious what others' thoughts are. Cards like Amaranth and Decapitate specify that they are only useable by vampires not going to torpor, which suggests that vampires on the way to torpor could still throw out combat cards that aren't phase specific, such as "pre's", strikes or presses. Ignore the Searing Flames is played after damage is inflicted, implying, again, that after damage is inflicted there is a window in which to play before vamps start going to torpor.
Last edit: 25 Jul 2013 22:11 by AaronC. Reason: formatting

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25 Jul 2013 22:18 #52267 by Reyda
After a quick research, it appears that Tracker's mark is the only card with this propriety. It may be a loophole, but the card is so seldom played that, maybe it should stay like this ?

Imagination is our only weapon in the war against reality -Jules de Gaultier

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26 Jul 2013 04:36 - 26 Jul 2013 04:39 #52276 by jamesatzephyr

It seems that this card could be played during the "resolve each point of damage in turn" portion of combat, VII.a. in the CRR, even if the !salu! is going to go to torpor during the "Check for vampires going to torpor" phase of combat.


Doesn't make a whole lot of difference. You're still in combat either way, so you can play combat cards that you meet the criteria of.

For example, Street Cred is playable at the end of a round (if you meet the criteria, of course), even if you're going to torpor. And end of round is later than damage handling.

[LSJ 20080126]

> Street Cred
> Type: Combat
> Requires: Potence
> Cost: 1 blood
> Only usable at the end of a round of combat in which this vampire
> successfully inflicted more damage than the opposing minion.
> [pot] Move 1 blood from the blood bank to a younger vampire in your
> uncontrolled region. A vampire can play only 1 Street Cred each turn.
> [POT] As above, but move 2 blood.
>
>
> The text seems to indicate that you can play that card even with a
> vampire going to torpor as there is no limitation like in the text of
> Disarm or Taste of Vitae. Is that correct?

Yes. The vampire can inspire through recklessness (foolishness?) or sacrifice, sure.

Last edit: 26 Jul 2013 04:39 by jamesatzephyr.

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26 Jul 2013 18:54 #52302 by AaronC
Interesting. The rules don't say that a vampire cannot play combat cards while in torpor. The "round ends" and "combat ends" steps of combat may happen while a vampire is in torpor, and those are windows during which the vampire in torpor could play miscellaneous combat cards.

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27 Jul 2013 11:03 #52348 by Timo

Interesting. The rules don't say that a vampire cannot play combat cards while in torpor. The "round ends" and "combat ends" steps of combat may happen while a vampire is in torpor, and those are windows during which the vampire in torpor could play miscellaneous combat cards.


I think the cards are not played in torpor but "on the way" to torpor. When you are effectively in torpor, the combat is allready ended and no combat cards can be played.

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28 Jul 2013 04:29 - 28 Jul 2013 04:31 #52379 by AaronC
A minion in torpor doesn't end combat. It makes combat go to the "round ends" phase, followed by the "combat ends" phase. I highly recommend reading the Complete Rules Reference on this site. If combat was over right when a minion went to torpor, the opposing minion would have no opportunity to play Taste of Vitae. The opposing minion who plays Taste of Vitae does so during combat but while the opposing minion is in torpor.

LSJ's ruling above indicates that a vampire in torpor may play Street Cred. Street Cred isn't played "while going to torpor". It's played during the "round ends" phase of combat.
Last edit: 28 Jul 2013 04:31 by AaronC.

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