Kindred Coercion - General Question
08 Oct 2013 10:09 - 08 Oct 2013 10:10 #54941
by Shockwave
Here we go again....
Dave Knowles (Advanced)
Sabbat Bishop of Manchester
Kindred Coercion - General Question was created by Shockwave
Blaming Josh for this...
Can a Vampire affected by DOM Kindred Coercion be made to abstain, even if they have already voted in the referendum?
Card Text
Kindred Coercion -- Type: Reaction -- Discipline: Dominate -- Cost: X blood
Only usable during a referendum.
[dom] Force X vampires to abstain. This can cancel those vampires' votes and ballots. The affected vampires cannot be older than this reacting vampire.
[DOM] As above, but you may change the votes and ballots that the affected vampires cast to votes and ballots of your choice instead. (The affected vampires may choose to abstain if they have not already cast their votes and ballots.)
Rationale
- The Vampire may have his votes changed to votes of your choice.
- That choice may (or may not, I'm not certain) include the choice to 'Abstain'
- The section in brackets states you can abstain if you have not yet voted (which says to me you cannot choose to abstain, but only by implication) but does NOT say that this prevents a Vampire who has previously voted having his votes changed to Abstain.
Aside
Because the DOM effect includes 'As Above', can you apply the inferior version to one Vampire, make him Abstain and then still use the superior effect to the Vampires you want to change votes of?
Can a Vampire affected by DOM Kindred Coercion be made to abstain, even if they have already voted in the referendum?
Card Text
Kindred Coercion -- Type: Reaction -- Discipline: Dominate -- Cost: X blood
Only usable during a referendum.
[dom] Force X vampires to abstain. This can cancel those vampires' votes and ballots. The affected vampires cannot be older than this reacting vampire.
[DOM] As above, but you may change the votes and ballots that the affected vampires cast to votes and ballots of your choice instead. (The affected vampires may choose to abstain if they have not already cast their votes and ballots.)
Rationale
- The Vampire may have his votes changed to votes of your choice.
- That choice may (or may not, I'm not certain) include the choice to 'Abstain'
- The section in brackets states you can abstain if you have not yet voted (which says to me you cannot choose to abstain, but only by implication) but does NOT say that this prevents a Vampire who has previously voted having his votes changed to Abstain.
Aside
Because the DOM effect includes 'As Above', can you apply the inferior version to one Vampire, make him Abstain and then still use the superior effect to the Vampires you want to change votes of?
Here we go again....Dave Knowles (Advanced)
Sabbat Bishop of Manchester
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08 Oct 2013 13:15 - 08 Oct 2013 13:16 #54950
by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Re: Kindred Coercion - General Question
An example would be more simple.
Vampire A hasn't voted yet. Vampire B has voted in favor.
If you play Kindred Coercion on A and B at DOM, you can:
- force A and B to abstain ("you may change...")
- force A to abstain and B to vote the other way round
- force A to vote as you wish if A casts any vote or ballot, but A's controller may decide not to vote at all, and force B to abstain or change B's votes.
Vampire A hasn't voted yet. Vampire B has voted in favor.
If you play Kindred Coercion on A and B at DOM, you can:
- force A and B to abstain ("you may change...")
- force A to abstain and B to vote the other way round
- force A to vote as you wish if A casts any vote or ballot, but A's controller may decide not to vote at all, and force B to abstain or change B's votes.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
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