Time for negotiation after playing a card before terms are set
14 May 2014 06:36 - 14 May 2014 06:37 #62346
by Ankha
The rulebook only states what you CAN do: "To begin, separate your crypt cards from your library cards. Shuffle both decks and allow your predator to cut both. Place both decks in front of you. Deal the top seven library cards to yourself to form your hand and deal the top four crypt cards face down into your uncontrolled region. You can look at the cards in your hand and in your uncontrolled region at any time during the game."
Replied by Ankha on topic Re: Time for negotiation after playing a card before terms are set
Nothing in the rulebook prevents you from looking at the cards in your library, crypt, or the other player's library and crypt. Do you assume you can do so?
As mentioned a bucketload of times, it is not written to EXCLUDE that same kind of debate when its a Master card... so it is fine. Until there is a concrete ruling to say "Yes you must not debate a Master card while attempting to play a Master card" then the rules support neither position more than the other.no. Because it is written as allowed in the rules for political actions.
The rulebook only states what you CAN do: "To begin, separate your crypt cards from your library cards. Shuffle both decks and allow your predator to cut both. Place both decks in front of you. Deal the top seven library cards to yourself to form your hand and deal the top four crypt cards face down into your uncontrolled region. You can look at the cards in your hand and in your uncontrolled region at any time during the game."
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
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14 May 2014 08:05 #62349
by Juggernaut1981
The RULEBOOK tells you that:
1) A card is not played until it hits the ashheap or a point in play somewhere
2) That it must also have its effect declared.
A ruling on top of that (by LSJ IIRC) tells you that:
"A card, when it is revealed, is in limbo [until it is resolved]"
So, no more and no less, the card is not PLAYED and there is nothing in the rules telling me how long I should take while the card is in the 'limbo' state where it is revealed but not in the ashheap or in play.
Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
Replied by Juggernaut1981 on topic Re: Time for negotiation after playing a card before terms are set
Exactly. No more and no less.Rules are not written to EXCLUDE things. THey are written in a way to tell you what and how to do , no more no less.
The RULEBOOK tells you that:
1) A card is not played until it hits the ashheap or a point in play somewhere
2) That it must also have its effect declared.
A ruling on top of that (by LSJ IIRC) tells you that:
"A card, when it is revealed, is in limbo [until it is resolved]"
So, no more and no less, the card is not PLAYED and there is nothing in the rules telling me how long I should take while the card is in the 'limbo' state where it is revealed but not in the ashheap or in play.
Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
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14 May 2014 08:06 #62350
by Juggernaut1981
The rules don't ban it, so it should be fine.
Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
Replied by Juggernaut1981 on topic Re: Time for negotiation after playing a card before terms are set
How else should Ben Peal declare an ousting Powerbleed for 7 unblockably???
Following that, nowhere does it say...DO NOT jump on the playing surface to...headbang to imaginary powermetal while pretending to play air-guitar.
This really should be permitted by the rules. If it isn't, the world will be a terrible place.
The rules don't ban it, so it should be fine.
Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
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14 May 2014 08:09 #62351
by Juggernaut1981
If I want to declare a random minion by rolling a d20 as the target of Pentex, then that's fine. It may be the most bone-headed tactical move made in VTES short of self-ousting in a Final... but it's not illegal even by your own interpretation since I didn't NEGOTIATE the target.
Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
Replied by Juggernaut1981 on topic Re: Time for negotiation after playing a card before terms are set
No more stupid and silly than Madness of the Bard and that got put into print.Because, following your logic, it would be completely legal to say : " I will play Pentex subversin * show card, place on table*, but to determine on who i will put it on, i will assign a random number to each ready minion on the table, and then proceed to roll d20 to see who gets the pentex"
It is stupid and silly.
If I want to declare a random minion by rolling a d20 as the target of Pentex, then that's fine. It may be the most bone-headed tactical move made in VTES short of self-ousting in a Final... but it's not illegal even by your own interpretation since I didn't NEGOTIATE the target.
Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
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14 May 2014 08:34 #62352
by Jeff Kuta
Juggernaut? Johannes? Why are you still arguing this point?
Dig up.
When you are anvil, be patient; when a hammer, strike.
pckvtes.wordpress.com
@pckvtes
Replied by Jeff Kuta on topic Re: Time for negotiation after playing a card before terms are set
Dealing isn't allowed when announcing stuff
Juggernaut? Johannes? Why are you still arguing this point?
Dig up.
When you are anvil, be patient; when a hammer, strike.
pckvtes.wordpress.com
@pckvtes
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