file Rules Team Rulings - 02-DEC-2014

02 Dec 2014 21:07 #67867 by Pascal Bertrand
As always, changes contained herein do not go into effect for sanctioned tournaments for 30 days. (So these become active on January 1st, 2015.)

These rules replace the existing rules. The changes are highlighted in yellow.


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Tournament Rules changes

3.1.1. Round Time Limits
Each round in the tournament has a time limit. The minimum time limit used in V:TES rounds is two hours. The time limit must be announced before play begins. The final round may last longer than the preliminary rounds, at the judge's option.
When the round is over, the judge will notify all players. The game will end with the current minion action - if any -, or at the end of the current phase, if the notification didn't happen during the minion phase.


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Continental Championships Qualifications changes

How To Qualify
[...]
The winner of a sanctioned, rated, standard constructed tournament of 8 or more players will be qualified for all Continental Championships.
[...]

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03 Dec 2014 11:26 #67882 by Hakuron
Does this mean that by 2015 TWDs of tournaments with 8 or 9 players will enter the TWDA, too?

National Coordinator Germany
nc [dot] germany [at] magenta [dot] de

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03 Dec 2014 11:36 #67883 by Pascal Bertrand

Does this mean that by 2015 TWDs of tournaments with 8 or 9 players will enter the TWDA, too?

It doesn't mean so.
It also doesn't mean they won't.

The TWDA was created by Jeff "TheLasombra" Thompson, who maintained it for more than 10 years, and is now taken care of by Vincent "Ankha" Ripoll. The list It contains is unrelated to the VEKN.

I *think* (but I cannot speak for him) Vincent wanted to stick to Jeff's original intent of having a 10-player limit. Jeff's initial choice was made way before I added the "winner of a 10+player event qualifies". I would consider these two separate, but that's up to Vincent now :)

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03 Dec 2014 12:33 #67884 by Ankha

Does this mean that by 2015 TWDs of tournaments with 8 or 9 players will enter the TWDA, too?

No. The minimum number of players required by the TWDA has no relation with the minimum number of players required to qualify and is still set to 10.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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03 Dec 2014 12:34 - 03 Dec 2014 12:36 #67885 by jamesatzephyr

3.1.1. Round Time Limits
Each round in the tournament has a time limit. The minimum time limit used in V:TES rounds is two hours. The time limit must be announced before play begins. The final round may last longer than the preliminary rounds, at the judge's option.
When the round is over, the judge will notify all players. The game will end with the current minion action - if any -, or at the end of the current phase, if the notification didn't happen during the minion phase.


So, since this reintroduces the problem that the previous version of the rule had solved, how should the following be handled?

Three (or more) players are on the table. Prior to the time limit expiring, player A starts a political action, such as Kine Resources Contested, Reckless Agitation, or Revolutionary Council (any vote where there is significant discretion about allocating pool damage would be fine). Prior to the terms being set, the time limit expires. The game is finely balanced, such that several players could be ousted, depending on the terms set. One way might give one player a game win; one way might a player another VP but leave them tied on VPs total (but that might still be better than having the vote fail); on a table with five players remaining, the acting Methuselah might try to get two VP by ousting his prey and grand-prey simultaneously but someone else threatens a Delaying Tactics if a point isn't given to a different Methuselah (so the acting Methuselah gets 1 VP and that other Methuselah gets 1VP). Negotiations ensue. Player B and Player C (and Player D etc. if necessary) make a number of promises, threats, and other negotiating stances. There is a lengthy period of threats; counter-threats; claims that someone is bluffing; counter-claims that no, I saw him play that card in round one, so I know he has at least one in his deck; I can pitch the Edge and this copy of Alastor to help you pass it if you set the terms this way, and so on. No-one plays slowly, but no-one has any incentive to give in - bluffing and manipulation are in no way poor play in V:TES.

This is not idle speculation - I've been witness to such things happening under the WotC tournament rules, when they didn't require immediate termination of the game .

1) As a judge, is there any way I can intervene? As far as I can tell, no - no-one is playing illegally.

2) As a tournament organiser, how do I tell people when the next round will start? As a tournament organizer, how much time should I allot between rounds when announcing the tournament, so people know if they have time to play the whole thing, and I know the venue won't be trying to shut in the middle of the final?
Last edit: 03 Dec 2014 12:36 by jamesatzephyr.

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03 Dec 2014 13:00 #67886 by BenPeal

1) As a judge, is there any way I can intervene? As far as I can tell, no - no-one is playing illegally.


Yes, you can intervene. You're the judge. That's part of your job - resolving situations that aren't covered under the rules.

Perhaps this is a contingency that should be covered with a rule. Until there is such a rule, do your job as the judge and end the game so the next round can start.

2) As a tournament organiser, how do I tell people when the next round will start? As a tournament organizer, how much time should I allot between rounds when announcing the tournament, so people know if they have time to play the whole thing, and I know the venue won't be trying to shut in the middle of the final?


Obviated by the answer above.

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