file PRO Loki's Gift is always (D)?

20 Feb 2015 13:09 - 20 Feb 2015 13:09 #69358 by jamesatzephyr

I was going with an empty vampire, takes the Loki's Gift action (cuz it's a hunt action), (meaninglessly) burns the blood, then gains the 1 blood from Loki's and has a way to get 2 votes/+1 stealth later.


I'm not sure you can order the burn a blood first, though I can't substantiate my hunch. Had I been asked in an off-the-cuff ruling in a live tournament situation, I'd have ruled that you did the things on the action in order - gain blood from the hunt, put the card on the vampire, burn the blood from the target.

I'm pretty sure there's some obvious precedent that I'm missing, one way or the other, though - there should be something somewhere where it was arguable that due to the first half of an action resolving, the target of the second half becomes ineligible somehow (and it's been ruled that either that does happen, or it doesn't).
Last edit: 20 Feb 2015 13:09 by jamesatzephyr.

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20 Feb 2015 13:40 #69359 by Ankha
See Rötschreck vs Psyche!

Name: Rötschreck
Cardtype: Master
Master: out-of-turn. Frenzy.
Put this card on a vampire when an opposing minion attempts to inflict aggravated damage on him or her, whether the damage would be successfully inflicted or not. Combat ends. This vampire is tapped and sent to torpor. This vampire does not untap as normal. During this vampire's next untap phase, burn this card.

Name: Psyche!
Cardtype: Combat
Discipline: Celerity
[cel] Press.
[CEL] Only usable at the end of a round when both combatants are still ready and combat is about to end. After this round, begin another combat with the opposing minion.

If vampire A plays Psyche! to start a new combat after Rötschreck has been played on him or her, A gets the card, but isn't tapped and doesn't go to torpor. (you can't apply these effects before combat ends).

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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20 Feb 2015 16:38 #69362 by jamesatzephyr

See Rötschreck vs Psyche!


Yeah, that would probably do. I just couldn't find something along the same lines that was action-based and closer to the "action does more than one thing" style of Loki's Gift.

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21 Feb 2015 06:24 #69372 by Miasmat
I read it as the SUP adds to the first sentence, since it doesn't much make sense to add it to the "A vampire can only have one Loki's Gift."

So, I read the SUP as "Gain 1 blood and this card, and burn a blood from any vampire." so I figured that was good enough to make it simultaneous effects so I could order them how I like. The second and third sentence of the basic is just a description of what you can do with the card while it's on this vampire - the actual resolution of the action is all in the first sentence of the basic.

But you're arguing that it's actually "Gain 1 blood and this card. This vampire can burn this card and 1 blood to get +1 stealth. A vampire can have only one Loki's Gift, and burn a blood from any vampire." which seems crazy-talk to me.

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21 Feb 2015 07:39 #69373 by Ankha

I read it as the SUP adds to the first sentence, since it doesn't much make sense to add it to the "A vampire can only have one Loki's Gift."

So, I read the SUP as "Gain 1 blood and this card, and burn a blood from any vampire." so I figured that was good enough to make it simultaneous effects so I could order them how I like. The second and third sentence of the basic is just a description of what you can do with the card while it's on this vampire - the actual resolution of the action is all in the first sentence of the basic.

But you're arguing that it's actually "Gain 1 blood and this card. This vampire can burn this card and 1 blood to get +1 stealth. A vampire can have only one Loki's Gift, and burn a blood from any vampire." which seems crazy-talk to me.

not at all. You read it correctly, but you can't order the effects the way you want. So it's: gain 1, put the card on the vampire, burn 1 blood in that order.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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