question-circle Does entering a direct action combat tap an untapped target?

22 Feb 2017 05:23 - 22 Feb 2017 05:35 #80785 by Cat_in_Exile
Hi guys, I'm new to the game (but loving it so far). I've tried googling this, but I can't find a clear answer, so I'm posting it here.

Do direct action attacks on a target minion, such as Beast, Leatherface of Detroit's ability, or even Bum's Rush, cause the targetted minion to tap, as though it was blocking?
Last edit: 22 Feb 2017 05:35 by Cat_in_Exile. Reason: Clarification/typo

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22 Feb 2017 08:16 #80786 by Lönkka
Not unless the card used explicitly tells so.

Deep Song is an example of such a card:
Enter combat with and tap a ready vampire controlled by another Methuselah. In that combat, that vampire is considered the acting minion.

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22 Feb 2017 15:35 #80795 by Cat_in_Exile
Good stuff, thanks for the clarification :)

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22 Feb 2017 16:05 #80796 by TwoRazorReign
This is a very common misperception in V:TES, that minions tap when entering combat. My theory of why this misperception is so prevalent is that combat almost always follows a successful block, and a successful block taps the blocking minion. Let’s analyze the relevant text from the rulebook:

"If the action is blocked, then any card played to take the action is burned (it is moved to the ash heap) and the blocking minion is tapped and enters combat with the acting minion (see Combat, sec. 6.4)."

From the above text, it's not clear what causes tapping, it just says that the blocking minion taps and enters combat. The reader is left to wonder, "is it the block that taps the minion, or is it entering combat?" The above text should clarify this point:

"If the action is blocked, then any card played to take the action is burned (it is moved to the ash heap). The blocking minion is tapped for successfully blocking and enters combat with the acting minion (see Combat, sec. 6.4). Note: entering combat does not tap a minion"

In the above rewrite, the note about not tapping for entering combat is necessary because combat almost always accompanies a successful block.

Now, there is another section of the rulebook that tries to clear things up, but it is somewhat vague:

"Being tapped or untapped doesn't matter for combat. Tapped minions fight just the same as untapped minions."

It’s tough to understand what’s going on here. For example, in what way does being tapped or untapped not matter for combat? And what exactly does “fight” mean? The way I understand this sentence is: "Tapped minions can enter combat with untapped minions." The writer of the rulebook likely figured that, after reading the above sentence, the next logical conclusion the reader would make is that minions do not tap for entering combat. In my opinion, the current text is not explicit enough for readers to consistently make this conclusion. The original text might be clearer if it stated:

"Tapped minions can enter combat with untapped minions. Entering combat does not tap a minion, but note that successfully blocking does."

Again, the last bit about blocking is necessary to include because in VTES, successfully blocking and entering combat almost always happen together.
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23 Feb 2017 06:20 #80810 by Cat_in_Exile
Wow, thanks for the detailed explaination.

As a follow-up, am I correct in assuming a targeted minion can then also choose to block an action which is already directed at itself?

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23 Feb 2017 07:18 - 23 Feb 2017 07:19 #80811 by Ankha
Correct, to deny the optional maneuver granted by a Bum's Rush for instance.
Of course, this requires the target to be untapped, and if the target blocks, it will become tapped.

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Last edit: 23 Feb 2017 07:19 by Ankha.
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