file Impulse order for Lutz and gaining pool from a vote

02 Aug 2017 06:52 #82847 by Blooded Sand
Prey is on 1 pool, and has n minions of clan x.
I control Lutz, and call Diversity.
Rule 6.3.2.3 States "Resolve the referendum. If there are more votes for the referendum than against, the referendum passes, and the effects of the successful referendum take place. Otherwise, the referendum fails and has no effect. Tied referendums fail."
I would assume this means that my prey may choose which order the effects occur in, correct?
6.3.2.3->Ref passes, effects occur. Effects are PREY GAINS 1 POOL and PREY BURNS 1 POOL.
My assumption is the impulse passes to my prey, he chooses whether to gain first or pay first, correct?

Cards:
Name: Lutz von Hohenzollern
[KoT:PM2]
Cardtype: Vampire
Clan: Malkavian
Group: 4
Capacity: 11
Discipline: pot AUS DEM OBF PRE
Camarilla Malkavian Inner Circle: While Lutz is ready, your prey burns a pool each time the referendum of a political action passes. +2 bleed.
Artist: Warren Mahy

Name: Diversity
[Gehenna:C, KMW:PAn2, KoT:C]
Cardtype: Political Action
Successful referendum means each Methuselah gains X pool, where X is the number of clans to which his or her ready vampires belong.
Artist: Brian LeBlanc

:assa: :flight: :QUI: :OBF: :POT: :FOR: :TEM: :DOM:

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02 Aug 2017 12:49 #82850 by TwoRazorReign
It appears the rulebook is missing a crucial word.

"Resolve the referendum. If there are more votes for the referendum than against, the referendum passes, and then the effects of the successful referendum take place. Otherwise, the referendum fails and has no effect. Tied referendums fail."

Source: Detailed Play Summary

Resolve the referendum. [6.3.2.3]
a. Determine the outcome of the referendum.
b. A referendum passes if it has more votes in favor than against.
c. A referendum fails if it is tied or has more votes against than it has in favor.
d. If it passes, apply the effects of the successful referendum.

Of course, now somebody will reply saying the Detailed Play Summary is wrong, or that I'm taking it out of context...

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02 Aug 2017 13:21 #82853 by drnlmza

My assumption is the impulse passes to my prey, he chooses whether to gain first or pay first, correct?


LSJ ruled that Lutz's effect is applied after the referendum is resolved, so there isn't an ordering to decide. Your prey gains 1 pool for the vote passing and then burns 1 pool from Lutz's text.

This ruling was repeated in several google threads, such as this one

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National Coordinator
South Africa
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02 Aug 2017 13:23 #82854 by Ankha

Prey is on 1 pool, and has n minions of clan x.
I control Lutz, and call Diversity.
Rule 6.3.2.3 States "Resolve the referendum. If there are more votes for the referendum than against, the referendum passes, and the effects of the successful referendum take place. Otherwise, the referendum fails and has no effect. Tied referendums fail."
I would assume this means that my prey may choose which order the effects occur in, correct?
6.3.2.3->Ref passes, effects occur. Effects are PREY GAINS 1 POOL and PREY BURNS 1 POOL.
My assumption is the impulse passes to my prey, he chooses whether to gain first or pay first, correct?

No. First apply the effects of the referendum, then resolve Lutz special. As a rule of thumb, effects are never interrupted in the middle.

groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/rSaiVPMbpvY/ZYG3cYIdQZkJ

Lutz' effect applies after resolution.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
The following user(s) said Thank You: Blooded Sand

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02 Aug 2017 18:16 #82858 by Blooded Sand

It appears the rulebook is missing a crucial word.

"Resolve the referendum. If there are more votes for the referendum than against, the referendum passes, and then the effects of the successful referendum take place. Otherwise, the referendum fails and has no effect. Tied referendums fail."

Source: Detailed Play Summary

Resolve the referendum. [6.3.2.3]
a. Determine the outcome of the referendum.
b. A referendum passes if it has more votes in favor than against.
c. A referendum fails if it is tied or has more votes against than it has in favor.
d. If it passes, apply the effects of the successful referendum.

Of course, now somebody will reply saying the Detailed Play Summary is wrong, or that I'm taking it out of context...

Are you sure you are using the most up to date version of the rules? Wording seems off...

:assa: :flight: :QUI: :OBF: :POT: :FOR: :TEM: :DOM:

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