file Nest of Eagles

11 Nov 2017 10:14 #84220 by thelonius reloaded
Replied by thelonius reloaded on topic Nest of Eagles
Nest of Eagles
Type: Reaction
Requires: Assamite
Reduce a bleed against you by 1. If the acting minion is a vampire with capacity less than 6 or an ally, reduce the bleed by 3 instead. Not usable if the acting minion is an Assamite or wraith or has flight [FLIGHT].

I added an "instead"... but i'not native English so I leave it to you

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Lurking in the underground of Bologna, Italy
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11 Nov 2017 13:43 - 11 Nov 2017 13:43 #84223 by Bloodartist
Replied by Bloodartist on topic Nest of Eagles

thelonius reloaded wrote: Nest of Eagles
Type: Reaction
Requires: Assamite
Reduce a bleed against you by 1. If the acting minion is a vampire with capacity less than 6 or an ally, reduce the bleed by 3 instead. Not usable if the acting minion is an Assamite or wraith or has flight [FLIGHT].

I added an "instead"... but i'not native English so I leave it to you


This wording would be clearest, I think.

I could've guessed the original was intended to be 1 or 3, but the wording on the original card is terrible, as it tends to be in VTES. Unless errata:ed, I would have also ruled in favor of the original topic.

Hell, we have VTES cards where the wordings between jyhad and modern versions aren't remotely the same. Not even numbers (take for example concealed weapon, for which jyhad version says weapon cant do more than 4 damage, whereas the real version says 3)

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If you want to go with me, refuse the light"
- Blutengel, Soultaker
Last edit: 11 Nov 2017 13:43 by Bloodartist.

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11 Nov 2017 14:54 - 11 Nov 2017 17:03 #84224 by TwoRazorReign
Replied by TwoRazorReign on topic Nest of Eagles

Ankha wrote: I'll update the future card text to make this clear (also Aire of Elation)


Yes, I agree that Aire of Elation has the same lack of clarity as Nest of Eagles and could benefit from clarification.

Blooded Sand wrote: No, as the separation is not a full stop "." which indicates a complete end of statement, but a semi colon, ";" which indicates a conditional


That's a very specific interpretation of how periods and semicolons function. To say something like a semicolon indicates a conditional is problematic. Your interpretation can and will differ from other people's interpretations. The only definite function semicolons and a periods have in this particular usage exemplified on Aire of Elation is to separate independent clauses. The difference is that a semicolon can be used when a thought or idea in the two clauses is closely related, whereas a period can be used when the two thoughts are not related. That's the only difference, and it's such a subtle one that periods and semicolons are essentially interchangeable when separating independent clauses; it would not be wrong if a period was used when the two clauses are closely related or when a semicolon was used when the two clauses are unrelated. While the semicolon is used correctly on Aire of Elation, it creates problems because other cards, like Nest of Eagles, use a period, and this inconsistency leads people to interpret differences between the two punctuation marks that actually don't exist.

Malcolm Sprye wrote: Except Aire of elation is separated by semi-colons instead of periods. That is a way of separating distinct options in a list. That isn't the same as complete sentences with full stop periods. Neither grammatically, nor in the conventions of CCGs.


The card text on Aire of Elation is not a list. The text is two complete independent clauses separated by a semicolon. It may seem like a list to you because some words are missing, as happens a lot in English. But there's really a subject and verb that are hidden. We are left to fill in the blanks. For example, "[This minion has] +1 bleed." The player is left to figure out what the subject and verb is a lot in VTES, which causes a lot of problems.
Last edit: 11 Nov 2017 17:03 by TwoRazorReign.

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15 Nov 2017 14:26 #84279 by ReverendRevolver
Replied by ReverendRevolver on topic Nest of Eagles
Aire of Elation is just as readable as other bleed pumping modifiers if ";" becomes ",or" .
+Bleed isn't the only information given, since the effect is printed on an action modifier. With that card type we know cost is paid regardless of the actions outcome, the effect is transient as of that action only, and the effect must be relevant, so no conditioning can be played on a hunt action, etc.

So, just ",or" replacing the ";" is all that's needed.
Consistancy in templating goes a long way, which I feel the Design Team has been quite watchful of.
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