file Ilusions of the Kindred vs psyche/telepathic tracking

06 Jan 2018 07:41 #84773 by Nac
Hi, i have a question regarding Illusions of the Kindred: there is a rulling regarding it ( link ) that says psyche can't be played against Illusions of the Knidred (no telepatic tracking reference). It is sort of counterintuitive as every other combat ends + something get lost after psyche/TT but I always thought the reason was the queued combat, but if that were the case then there are other combat ends + another combat that should be free from psyche/TT. I came to do some research on Illusions (I´m playing a Ravnos and I prefer to be able to explain rather than say "LSJ said so in 1997") and I found this and now I'm confused: which one is valid and more important, why?

Many thanks in advance :)

Illusions of the Kindred

Only usable before range is determined.
[chi] Combat ends. Move the bottom card of your crypt to your ready region. He or she does not contest any other minions or titles in play. The vampire has an amount of blood equal to half of his or her capacity (round down). Combat begins between the vampire and the opposing minion. Remove the crypt card from the game at the end of combat.
[CHI] As above, but the vampire has an amount of blood equal to his or her capacity.

Psyche!

[cel] Press.
[CEL] Only usable at the end of a round when both combatants are still ready and combat is about to end. After this round, begin another combat with the opposing minion.

Telepathic Tracking

[aus] Press, only usable to continue combat. If another round of combat occurs, this vampire gets an optional maneuver during that round.
[AUS] Only usable at the end of a round when both combatants are still ready and combat is about to end. The round ends, but combat does not end; another round starts.

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06 Jan 2018 09:36 - 06 Jan 2018 09:38 #84774 by Ankha
You cannot play Psyche! as it would queue another combat after the current one. But Illusions of the Kindred has already queued a combat (provided the crypt is not empty), and the ruling says that you can't queue a combat if another one is already queued.
If the crypt is empty, then IotK doesn't queue a combat, and you can play Psyche!

You can play Telepathic Tracking as it prolongs the current combat with a new round. The combat queued by IotK would then be lost.

groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/gx6X-NAE8GE/ke03KhWiClMJ

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Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Last edit: 06 Jan 2018 09:38 by Ankha.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Nac, beslin igor

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06 Jan 2018 17:23 #84783 by Nac
Main reason I was confused was this, from 2002 rulling thread:

LSJ

1/5/02

Sorrow wrote:
> > > > Effects that end combat and then do something else after combat (all in
> > > the
> > > > single resolution of the effect) will fizzle if combat doesn't end or if a
> > > > new combat is started.
> > > Is it possible to play psyche or TheleTracking in response to Illusion of
> > > the kindred than ?

> > Yes.
>
> So what does that do to the Illusions combat? Negate it?
Fizzle. See above.

--
LSJ () V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

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06 Jan 2018 17:55 #84784 by kschaefer
Ankha's cited post is later and should be more definitive.

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09 Oct 2018 12:17 - 09 Oct 2018 14:28 #91070 by Bloodartist
edit: nevermind

"Do you believe in the power of the night?
If you want to go with me, refuse the light"
- Blutengel, Soultaker
Last edit: 09 Oct 2018 14:28 by Bloodartist.

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