file Undead Persistence

10 Jan 2018 03:21 - 10 Jan 2018 03:26 #84835 by self biased
I'm a little confused as to the card's wording:

undead persistence
[for] Only usable when this vampire should go into torpor. This vampire gets an optional press and will not go to torpor until combat ends (although he or she is still considered wounded and can be burned as normal). If three rounds of combat pass with no cards played, combat ends. This vampire is sent into torpor after combat.
[FOR] Prevent 2 damage.


the way i've always seen this played in my group is that the vampire playing this card gets an optional press each round. because if they only got the one press, how could the 'combat ends' clause ever be relevant?

i've always thought of this card as a slightly different version of TRAP! that requires fortitude.

after actually reading the card I'm prepared that we've been playing this very, very wrong.
Last edit: 10 Jan 2018 03:26 by self biased.

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10 Jan 2018 09:07 #84839 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Undead Persistence

I'm a little confused as to the card's wording:[/i]

undead persistence
[for] Only usable when this vampire should go into torpor. This vampire gets an optional press and will not go to torpor until combat ends (although he or she is still considered wounded and can be burned as normal). If three rounds of combat pass with no cards played, combat ends. This vampire is sent into torpor after combat.
[FOR] Prevent 2 damage.


the way i've always seen this played in my group is that the vampire playing this card gets an optional press each round.

That's a common mistake. Since the text strongly reminds the text of Trap, people tend to think it provides presses as the Trap does. This is not the case. Undead Persistance gives 1 optional press for the current round.

because if they only got the one press, how could the 'combat ends' clause ever be relevant?

Let's say Fakir al Sidi ("Fakir gets 1 optional press each combat.") plays Undead Persistance and a Trap. On the fourth round, he decides to use his press to start a fifth round. Undead Persistance would end combat.

i've always thought of this card as a slightly different version of TRAP! that requires fortitude.

But it doesn't have the same cardtext if you read it without making any assumption.

after actually reading the card I'm prepared that we've been playing this very, very wrong.

Indeed.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
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10 Jan 2018 09:23 #84840 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Undead Persistence
But the "three rounds" part is so cornercase that I wonder why it was introduced in the first place. My guess is that it was released at the same time as Trap and they wanted to double-check the interaction between both cards. Or maybe the card was changed (maybe it provided a press like the Trap at that time)

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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10 Jan 2018 13:58 #84845 by self biased
Replied by self biased on topic Undead Persistence
right? It's that three rounds clause that gets me. I'm hard pressed to come up with three permanent cards that provide presses, though you could probably generate one with an action modifier, too. It seems like an awful lot of setup when you could just use trap, and trap also ends after 3 rounds of no cards being played.

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10 Jan 2018 14:09 - 10 Jan 2018 14:10 #84846 by TwoRazorReign
Replied by TwoRazorReign on topic Undead Persistence

i've always thought of this card as a slightly different version of TRAP! that requires fortitude.

But it doesn't have the same cardtext if you read it without making any assumption.


I see your point, Ankha, but it is such a ubiquitous mistake, that there has to be a problem here. In my experience, the common assumption when reading the card for the first time is that combat will be automatically extended for 3 rounds, regardless of presses, unless a card is played, whereupon it will be extended further. The card text needs to clarify that there is only 1 press provided, and that card does not extend combat beyond that press.

"Only usable when this vampire should go into torpor. This vampire gets an optional press and will not go to torpor (although he or she is still considered wounded and can be burned as normal). This card does not extend combat beyond the one press provided; if three rounds of combat were to pass with no cards played during those rounds, combat ends. This vampire is sent into torpor after combat."

Last edit: 10 Jan 2018 14:10 by TwoRazorReign.

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13 Jan 2018 22:37 #84891 by Lönkka
Replied by Lönkka on topic Undead Persistence
Do take into account that the text space is limited and the card is already rather text heavy..

I'd remove the rather unnecessary 3 round clause to make it less text heavy and less confusing.

(Have loved the card for years and years BTW...)

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