file Question about False Resonance

02 Feb 2018 13:18 - 02 Feb 2018 13:21 #85204 by Boris The Blade

GreyB wrote: I did not make this assumption at all ;)

Yes you did, when you said this:

You can only play "False Resonance" at superior if you need the stealth (since at superior it's just a stealth modifier with an added option later on), so you have to use it at inf. if you want to cancel an auspex card.

"Needing the stealth" has nothing to do with timing, (and indeed, nothing to do with the question at hand), it just means that during the action the acting minion has less stealth than the blocking minion's intercept. We know that from the Form of Mist ruling.

My point is: if the justification was that that you cannot play False Resonance like that because you don't need the stealth, then there would be situations when you can. therefore it is not a valid justification.

Example:
- Minion bleeds
- Carna (+1 intercept) uses an eyes of argus to untap and block.
- Acting minion plays False Resonance at superior.
- Acting minion gets +1 stealth, but can NOT cancel the eyes of argus since it missed the 'as it is played window', acting player chose to get the `+1 stealth and cancel an auspex card later option`.
- Acting minion is blocked.

Again, that is not a generic example enough, because in the cancel window of Eyes of Argus, Carna is not yet blocking and the acting minion does not need +1 Stealth.

Try this: a random :aus: anarch attempts to block with enough intercept and plays Netwar.

Netwar
Reaction

Requires an anarch.
:aus: Look at the acting Methuselah's hand.

In that case, the acting minion already needs stealth in the cancel window, so your explanation does not prevent him from playing False Resonance at Superior in the cancel window.

I am not arguing the conclusion, but the explanation must be correct as well to ensure the consistency of the rule system, especially when Ankha quotes it as correct and it becomes official. Again, needing stealth has nothing to do with the question. James provided the correct answer.
Last edit: 02 Feb 2018 13:21 by Boris The Blade.

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02 Feb 2018 19:48 #85208 by GreyB
I'll bite since I need something to do while waiting for a new Big Bang Theory episode...

Boris The Blade wrote: "Needing the stealth" has nothing to do with timing,


The only reason you would and can play False Resonance at superior is when you need stealth... You simply cannot use it otherwise.

Boris The Blade wrote: (and indeed, nothing to do with the question at hand),


The question was about False Resonance at superior.

Boris The Blade wrote: it just means that during the action the acting minion has less stealth than the blocking minion's intercept. We know that from the Form of Mist ruling.


It also means that when you play False Resonance as a stealth modifier, the timing window for 'As it is played' has passed.

Boris The Blade wrote: My point is: if the justification was that that you cannot play False Resonance like that because you don't need the stealth, then there would be situations when you can. therefore it is not a valid justification.


Did you not read the 2nd paragraph of my answer? Which explains why you can't cancel an auspex card already played before False Resonance at superior was played.

Boris The Blade wrote: James provided the correct answer.


James had the better answer (rulebook reference and everything), but both where correct ;)

1.6.1 wrote: Some effects can cancel a card "as it is played." These effects as well as wake effects (see Special Terms, sec. 11) are the only effects allowed during the "as played" time period of another card. Even drawing to replace cards comes after this time period.


I personally prefer the 'what timing am I at when I use X' approach and explain the steps so people can visualise it. Quoting rulebooks can be absolute but still confusing to some people.

:garg: :VIS: :POT: :FOR: :flight: -1 Strength

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