file Cats' Guidance and Forced Vigilance

09 Feb 2018 13:48 #85273 by beslin igor
beslin igor created the topic: Cats' Guidance and Forced Vigilance
I'm interested in inferior efect these 2 cards.

question 1) can be played if vampire who block goes to torpor in this combat?

question 2) can be played after Mental Maze(inferior) or Voice of Madness and after similar cards?

Cats' Guidance

Cardtype: Reaction
Discipline: Animalism
[ani] Only usable by a locked vampire immediately after he or she blocks (play after combat, if any). Unlock this reacting vampire.
[ANI] +1 intercept.


Forced Vigilance


Cardtype: Reaction
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Fortitude
[for] Only usable by a locked vampire immediately after he or she blocks (play after combat, if any). Unlock this reacting vampire.
[FOR] Only usable by a locked vampire during a (D) action directed against you (or something you control). Unlock this vampire.

Mental Maze

Cardtype: Reaction
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Obfuscate
Only usable when this vampire successfully blocks an ally or a younger vampire (play before combat, if any).
[obf] End the action (with no combat). If this blocking minion is a Follower of Set, this card costs 1 less blood.
[OBF] As above, and do not lock this blocking vampire.

Voice of Madness

Cardtype: Reaction
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Dementation
Only usable when this vampire successfully blocks an ally or younger vampire.
[dem] Lock this reacting vampire. Combat does not occur.
[DEM] As above, and the acting minion burns 1 blood or life.

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10 Feb 2018 01:04 #85284 by Boris The Blade
Boris The Blade replied the topic: Cats' Guidance and Forced Vigilance
1) No, because vampires in torpor cannot play Reactions.

2) No, because nothing can be played after an End Action effect. Obedience is a hard counter to Una.

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10 Feb 2018 01:21 #85285 by Kushiel
Kushiel replied the topic: Cats' Guidance and Forced Vigilance

Boris The Blade wrote: 2) No, because nothing can be played after an End Action effect. Obedience is a hard counter to Una.


Which means that the answer to this question is "no" for Mental Maze and Obedience, but not Voice of Madness, which has no "end this action" text.
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10 Feb 2018 09:57 #85289 by beslin igor
beslin igor replied the topic: Cats' Guidance and Forced Vigilance
Boris The Blade i think same as you in answer 1,but i no understand whu some tournament players they claim they can play Cats' Guidance if goes to torpor.
It happens to me several times.
Please for answer ruling director or some from RTR to give some explanation to clarify this situation.
For answer 2 i think Kushiel is right.

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10 Feb 2018 10:35 #85290 by jamesatzephyr
jamesatzephyr replied the topic: Cats' Guidance and Forced Vigilance

beslin igor wrote: Boris The Blade i think same as you in answer 1,but i no understand whu some tournament players they claim they can play Cats' Guidance if goes to torpor.


Some players don't understand the rules.

beslin igor wrote: Please for answer ruling director or some from RTR to give some explanation to clarify this situation.
For answer 2 i think Kushiel is right.


Alternatively, you could just ask your players to read the rulebook?
1.6.3.6: Reaction cards: A ready unlocked minion can play a reaction card in response to an action taken by another Methuselah's minion (an action taken by one of a Methuselah's minions cannot be reacted to by any of her own minions). A minion cannot play the same reaction card more than once during a single action. A reaction card does not lock the minion using it.

Reaction cards have to be played by ready minions. If they don't have card text allowing them to be played from torpor (or some other non-ready region), you follow the rules.


Some players may be confusing Cat's Guidance with action modifiers. Action modifiers played by the acting minion can be played by vampires in torpor, such as when a torporized vampire takes a leave torpor action and plays Lost in Crowds on it.
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10 Feb 2018 16:33 #85293 by Boris The Blade
Boris The Blade replied the topic: Cats' Guidance and Forced Vigilance
A simple trick to remember the rule: if one could play reactions from torpor, then one could freaking BOUNCE from torpor, which must be breaking about every fundamental law of the universe.
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