question-circle Pre-Range Disarm

11 Sep 2018 16:39 #90552 by Viper
Replied by Viper on topic Pre-Range Disarm

Ankha wrote: Please create new topics for new questions.


Sorry, but the whole Outside the Hourglass + Disarm vs Alpha Glint got me to the doubt.

I was under the assumption that a Combat Ends takes precedence over other effects, so Outside the Hourglass shouldn't inflict damage.

But, from the points exposed on this topic, it seems that a pre-range combat ends is just another effect that takes place along everything else.

Example: Under this assumption, an acting vampire Dawn Operation + Outside the Hourglass should sent a blocking vampire to torpor, regardless of a pre-range combat ends.

Could you clarify?

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11 Sep 2018 17:15 #90555 by Klaital
Replied by Klaital on topic Pre-Range Disarm
Combat ends on its own as an effect does not take precedence over anything (see Anaesthetic touch as an example), it is just that Strike: Combat Ends specifically happens before other strikes (except dodges) as defined by the rules. Any kind of other effect that happens to end combat but isn't specificaly Strike: Combat Ends, works just like any other effect of same timing.

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11 Sep 2018 17:57 - 11 Sep 2018 17:58 #90559 by jamesatzephyr
Replied by jamesatzephyr on topic Pre-Range Disarm

Viper wrote: I was under the assumption that a Combat Ends takes precedence over other effects, so Outside the Hourglass shouldn't inflict damage.


If damage has been inflicted, it has to be handled before combat can actually end. So if I play Outside the Hourglass and then end combat during damage prevention (by e.g. Alpha Glint, tapping Mariel, Elysium: the Arboretum etc.), the damage still needs to be handled.

One common thing that causes combat to end is a vampire going to torpor. So consider this situation:

Two vampires, A and B.
A chooses to strike with Rowan Ring (or any other go to torpor strike).
B chooses to strike with hands.
Strike resolution:
The strikes resolve simultaneously. B goes to torpor, and A takes 1 hand damage.
A doesn't immediately burn blood, because there is a damage prevention window for that. But B immediately goes to torpor, which ends combat because one of the combatants is not ready. However, because damage was inflicted on A, the handling of the damage needs to be finished before combat actually finally ends.

Other things that need to be handled before combat actually finally ends are cards like Taste of Vitae, Disarm etc. (and other end of round/end of combat effects), if they're playable.


Viper wrote: Example: Under this assumption, an acting vampire Dawn Operation + Outside the Hourglass should sent a blocking vampire to torpor, regardless of a pre-range combat ends.


If that combo is played, the opposing vampire has two damage to handle. If someone then follows up with Alpha Glint (or whatever) during damage prevention, the damage doesn't evaporate - it has to be handled.
Last edit: 11 Sep 2018 17:58 by jamesatzephyr.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Viper

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11 Sep 2018 22:56 #90562 by Bloodartist
Replied by Bloodartist on topic Pre-Range Disarm

jamesatzephyr wrote:

Killiam wrote:
Q A-1: May Synesios now play Disarm?
Q A-2: If yes to A-1, is there still a window left in combat for Synesios to follow it with superior Decapitate? And Ritual OTBR, Taste of Vitae, etc?


Yes. When combat ends (Alpha Glint), the round ends. Cards that are playable when the round ends can be used.

Returning to the original question..

Are you sure? Disarm is only playable at close range. Since in the topic scenario you never proceed to determine range step, I don't believe disarm is playable?

"Do you believe in the power of the night?
If you want to go with me, refuse the light"
- Blutengel, Soultaker

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12 Sep 2018 00:34 #90563 by 1uck
Replied by 1uck on topic Pre-Range Disarm

Bloodartist wrote: Are you sure? Disarm is only playable at close range. Since in the topic scenario you never proceed to determine range step, I don't believe disarm is playable?


I think the range is close by default, and the determine range step is merely the phase in which maneuvers can be played.

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12 Sep 2018 01:46 #90564 by ReverendRevolver
Replied by ReverendRevolver on topic Pre-Range Disarm

1uck wrote:

Bloodartist wrote: Are you sure? Disarm is only playable at close range. Since in the topic scenario you never proceed to determine range step, I don't believe disarm is playable?


I think the range is close by default, and the determine range step is merely the phase in which maneuvers can be played.


Correct.

So, the disarm majesty trick doesn't work if range was set to long (Fear the void below, sniper rifle, selective silence, high ground with flight, brick by brick, cold aura, shadow step, that Assamite retainer, etc). I mean, if they're acting they typically make it agg, but there's always penitent resilience, Jau vena, skin of night, armor of terra, elemental stoicism, repair the undead flesh, etc.
I think the fact that SCE takes precedent over everything else makes it feel like a hard stop, but combat ending still goes to the stage where its ending. You cant press, but tasting and disarming and decapitating and cycling all those Jua Vema you put into a deck while drunk can still be played.

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