No Secrets from Vlad Tepes
04 Apr 2018 11:37 #86154
by TwoRazorReign
Replied by TwoRazorReign on topic No Secrets from Vlad Tepes
I agree that a minion acting as if they had a requirement has a lot of coutnerintuitive components. Unless there is a dedicated section added to the rulebook that gets into every little situation of a minion acting as if they had a requirement, there is no amount of rewording on cards that is going to fix this. I wonder if it is better to just ban these cards. (I'm not joking or trying to be controversial; I already avoid any cards that allow a minion to act as if they had a requirement because I honestly do not know how to use them most of the time).
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04 Apr 2018 12:18 - 04 Apr 2018 12:19 #86155
by Ankha
It is very similar to Guard Duty: you have to follow the cardtext, even if it's surprising.
Replied by Ankha on topic No Secrets from Vlad Tepes
My thoughts exactly.VERY counterintuitive!
I'm like, what.
I would NOT be able to read that from the card texts alone.
It is very similar to Guard Duty: you have to follow the cardtext, even if it's surprising.
Last edit: 04 Apr 2018 12:19 by Ankha.
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04 Apr 2018 15:51 #86156
by Kraus
From reading the Final Nights version of Guard Duty I would not be able to comprehend that it is unusable if no intercept is needed.
Is this ruling really needed? Is there any way to work around it? It makes little sense (in any way but the strictest reading of the rules), is really confusing and often (I think) should be reminded in the card text.
Intercept in these, I feel, should be an added benefit, not a hinderance.
"Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!"
-Nalia De-Arnise
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Replied by Kraus on topic No Secrets from Vlad Tepes
There is a clarification clause in the Amaranth version of Guard Duty, but not the card from Final Nights.
My thoughts exactly.VERY counterintuitive!
I'm like, what.
I would NOT be able to read that from the card texts alone.
It is very similar to Guard Duty: you have to follow the cardtext, even if it's surprising.
From reading the Final Nights version of Guard Duty I would not be able to comprehend that it is unusable if no intercept is needed.
Is this ruling really needed? Is there any way to work around it? It makes little sense (in any way but the strictest reading of the rules), is really confusing and often (I think) should be reminded in the card text.
Intercept in these, I feel, should be an added benefit, not a hinderance.
"Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!"
-Nalia De-Arnise
garourimgazette.wordpress.com/
www.vekn.net/forum-guidelines
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04 Apr 2018 19:08 #86158
by Ankha
For Vlad Tepes, it results from the weird interactions his ability can generate.
Replied by Ankha on topic No Secrets from Vlad Tepes
It's the application of the rules: you can't add intercept when you don't need intercept.Is this ruling really needed? Is there any way to work around it? It makes little sense (in any way but the strictest reading of the rules), is really confusing and often (I think) should be reminded in the card text.
For Guard Duty, it's the consequence of a badly designed card.Intercept in these, I feel, should be an added benefit, not a hinderance.
For Vlad Tepes, it results from the weird interactions his ability can generate.
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05 Apr 2018 06:32 #86161
by Lönkka
Ah, OK now I see it.
Vlad needs to "activate" NSFTM.
I still think it is highly counterintuitive that if you have an effect (in the case of NSFTM block while untapped) and the same source also gives intercept you can't activate the effect if intercept is needed.
Regarding Guard Duty which is at best a very marginal card that sees no use, perhaps it could be made slightly less marginal card by making the intercept voluntary?
"Put this card on the acting minion and choose a location. If the chosen location is the target of a action (and you control the location), this minion can burn 1 blood or burn this card to untap and attempt to block with OPTIONAL +1 intercept."
or
"Put this card on the acting minion and choose a location. If the chosen location is the target of a action (and you control the location), this minion can burn 1 blood or burn this card to untap and attempt to block with +1 intercept IF NEEDED."
Replied by Lönkka on topic No Secrets from Vlad Tepes
It's only relevant to Vlad who doesn't use it continuously.Is this only relevant to Vlad?
And if so why (aren't "other" Magaji with NSFTM affected by this limitation)?
Ah, OK now I see it.
Vlad needs to "activate" NSFTM.
Vlad has to "use" it to get the intercept and the "block as if..." ability. Otherwise the NSftM has no effect. And Vlad can't use it if he doesn't need intercept (rulebook)[/quote]
, the same way he wouldn't be able to burn 1 blood with a Bowl of Convergence, or lock a WMRH Talk Radio to gain intercept.
For Bowl he needs to burn a blood and form WMRH he needs to tap WMRH.
For NSFTM he doesn't need to do anything as NSFTM grants him +1 intercept.
I still think it is highly counterintuitive that if you have an effect (in the case of NSFTM block while untapped) and the same source also gives intercept you can't activate the effect if intercept is needed.
Regarding Guard Duty which is at best a very marginal card that sees no use, perhaps it could be made slightly less marginal card by making the intercept voluntary?
"Put this card on the acting minion and choose a location. If the chosen location is the target of a action (and you control the location), this minion can burn 1 blood or burn this card to untap and attempt to block with OPTIONAL +1 intercept."
or
"Put this card on the acting minion and choose a location. If the chosen location is the target of a action (and you control the location), this minion can burn 1 blood or burn this card to untap and attempt to block with +1 intercept IF NEEDED."
Finnish Politics!
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05 Apr 2018 08:07 #86162
by Kraus
I'm not sure what to do with Vlad and No secrets to make it more intuitive...
"Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!"
-Nalia De-Arnise
garourimgazette.wordpress.com/
www.vekn.net/forum-guidelines
Replied by Kraus on topic No Secrets from Vlad Tepes
Or, rather, even if it is not yet needed so that we'll actually get the benefit?"Put this card on the acting minion and choose a location. If the chosen location is the target of a action (and you control the location), this minion can burn 1 blood or burn this card to untap and attempt to block with +1 intercept IF NEEDED."
I'm not sure what to do with Vlad and No secrets to make it more intuitive...
"Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!"
-Nalia De-Arnise
garourimgazette.wordpress.com/
www.vekn.net/forum-guidelines
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