Stealing life from Tunnel Runner

Hi,

In a recent game there came up the topic of whether a vampire stealing life from a Tunnel Runner will first steal life and then take damage?

So, to provide an example a vampire with 1 blood is blocked by a Tunnel Runner. The Tunnel Runner hit's the vampire for 1 damage, and the vampire tries to steal 2 life from the Tunnel Runner.

Will the vampire go to torpor for taking 1+2 damage or will he or she be left with 0 blood because all strikes unless they are first strikes or combat ends resolve simultaneously?

Relevant card text:

Name: Tunnel Runner
[EK:C]
Cardtype: Ally
Clan: Akunanse
Cost: 4 pool
Werewolf with 3 life. 1 strength, 1 bleed.
The Runner may play cards that require Animalism [ani] as a vampire and may burn 1 life to get +1 stealth. If he successfully bleeds, you may look at the target Methuselah's hand. A vampire stealing life from the Runner takes 1 damage for each point stolen. If the Runner has 2 or fewer life during your unlock phase, he gains 1 life.
Artist: Brian LeBlanc

Khalid1988 wrote:

In a recent game there came up the topic of whether a vampire stealing life from a Tunnel Runner will first steal life and then take damage?

So, to provide an example a vampire with 1 blood is blocked by a Tunnel Runner. The Tunnel Runner hit's the vampire for 1 damage, and the vampire tries to steal 2 life from the Tunnel Runner.

Will the vampire go to torpor for taking 1+2 damage or will he or she be left with 0 blood because all strikes unless they are first strikes or combat ends resolve simultaneously?

So, the damage Tunnel Runner inflicts isn't from a strike but let's assume similar timing.

Strikes that aren't first strike or combat ends happen simultaneously, yes. The effect of a steal blood strike is to take the counters. The effect of a damage-dealing strike is to apply the damage to you. You do not burn the relevant amount of blood immediately. Why? Because damage prevention can happen.

Leave Tunnel Runner alone. You are on full blood, and I am on some blood (irrelevant). I hit you with a hand strike for one damage, and you steal 2 blood from with superior Theft of Vitae. What happens? You steal the two blood, the excess drains off, and then you burn 1 blood from the hand strike, leaving you at one below capacity. From the rulebook:

Thought so as well. Thanks for confirming the hazy memory.

Ankha wrote:

Upon strike resolution:
The vampire steals 2 blood and takes 2 damage.
Then the vampire takes 1 damage from the Tunnel Runner's strike. The vampire ends up with 0 blood.

While the end result is the same, this sequence is wrong and a frequent cause of confusion.

6.4.3 (...) The effects of the strikes from both minions are resolved simultaneously.

The steal blood and taking damage all happen at the same time. However, the 'burn blood to heal damage' phase only happens after damage is applied, so the correct sequence is:

1. Minions declares strikes (acting minion first)
2. Both strikes resolve at the same time:
- vampire steals 2 blood (move 2 counters to the vampire, remove 2 counters from Tunnel Runner) and takes 2 damage
- Tunnel Runner strike deals 1 damage to the vampire
(note that the vampire has accumulated 3 damage at this point, but burned no blood yet)
3. Minions plays damage prevention cards (lets assume no damage prevention is played)
4. Minions burns blood/life for each non-prevented damage (3 blood from the vampire, 0 from the Tunnel Runner)

IME, this has been one of the most frequent questions in VtES games since the Jyhad days (along with 'Did I gain pool from the edge?')

Theft of Vitae vs Shambling Hordes is the stack in a stackless game.
'How much strength does Shambling Hordes hits the Tremere with?'

Name: Shambling Hordes

[FN:C2, LotN:PG4]
Cardtype: Ally
Cost: 3 blood
Discipline: Necromancy
Zombie with 3 life. 0 strength, 0 bleed.
[nec] When Shambling Hordes enters play, remove an ally or vampire in your ash heap from the game or burn the Hordes. The Hordes gets +1 strength for each life counter it has. It can never gain life; any life it gains goes to the blood bank instead. The Hordes can enter combat with any minion as a action.
[NEC] As above, with 4 life.
Artist: Steve Ellis