question-circle Shadow Court Satyr and Heaven's Gate

18 Jun 2018 18:47 #88261 by Ratadin
I have a question about "once each combat" abilities and triggering them while the minion is not in combat: is it possible? Can I use Heaven's Gate with a Shadow Court Satyr while another ally (like a Courier) is in combat?
According to RAW card text, "once each combat" means once every single combat on the game,no matter the minions nor the controller, although I could understand that the RAI were to be different.

Cards:
Heaven's Gate
Only usable by an unlocked vampire not involved in the current combat.
[nec] Prevent 1 damage to an ally in combat.
[obe] Only usable when an ally would be burned in combat. Move that ally to his or her controller's uncontrolled region (controlled, but not ready) instead with 1 life if he or she has no life.
[OBE] As [obe] above, but add up to 2 life to the ally, not to exceed his or her starting life.

Shadow Court Satyr (Changeling)
Changeling with 3 life. 1 strength, 1 bleed. When the Satyr enters play, you may put a combat card from your hand on him. Once each combat, the Satyr may use the ability of that card as if played from your hand. If the card requires a vampire (e.g., costs blood or requires a Discipline), he may use it as a vampire with the basic level of the Discipline (if any).

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18 Jun 2018 21:24 #88270 by Whisker
I can't see why this would not work, but I let Ankha and others with better understanding of rules minitia to pipe in on this one. Lovely combo by the way, if this works I need to build something with this.

Follow up question, how does the [obe] version of heaven's gate interact with Shambling hordes? Is moving to ready region with one life considered gaining life?

Shambling Hordes
[Ally] Ally
[Necromancy] Necromancy
[3 Blood]
Zombie with 3 life. 0 strength, 0 bleed.
[nec] When Shambling Hordes enters play, remove an ally or vampire in your ash heap from the game or burn the Hordes. The Hordes gets +1 strength for each life counter it has. It can never gain life; any life it gains goes to the blood bank instead. The Hordes can enter combat with any minion as a (D) action.
[NEC] As above, with 4 life.

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18 Jun 2018 22:46 #88272 by hollowboy

Whisker wrote: Lovely combo by the way

Agreed!

Whisker wrote: Follow up question, how does the [obe] version of heaven's gate interact with Shambling hordes? Is moving to ready region with one life considered gaining life?

I'm not a rules god, but I note that Superior Compel the Spirit, which does work with Hordes, has similar wording.

CtS: "move [...] with X life"
HG: "move [...] with 1 life"

Move-With-Life (which sounds like a good name for a yoga retreat) seems to be a different mechanic to Gain-Life

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19 Jun 2018 22:06 #88303 by ReverendRevolver
Believe "add/gain/steal" count as gain, HG should be ok.

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20 Jun 2018 10:59 #88310 by Temporis
Frustratingly LSJ ruled against this combination a long time ago, although I never quite understood logic of the ruling. Apologies I can't find the link or ruling at the moment, it would have been a very nice combo.

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20 Jun 2018 11:14 #88312 by Temporis
You can find the old discussion of this question here:

groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/EksUAQcZeS8

It seemed to pivot around the point that the combat card effect has to used in a combat that the Satyr is involved in (although, by effect, the Heaven's Gate involves the Satyr in the combat, so I wasn't convinced ... but it was a ruling).

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