file Two questions that recently came up

25 Jun 2018 23:01 #88387 by mjvtes521
Two questions came up during the tournaments I played in last weekend. Sorry if these have been answered already somewhere, but if they have, I couldn't find it.

First, vampire A played an auspex card to block Ossian. The question was whether or not Vampire A could set the range to long before range was determined in the first round of the resulting combat. The set range part is neither a strike nor a maneuver, so I ruled that Vampire A could set the range to long, but would still not be able to strike. Was this correct? Here are relevant card texts:

Sniper Rifle
Equipment
2 Pool

Weapon, gun.
2R damage each strike. Only usable at long range. If the bearer blocks an action, he or she may, before range is determined, set the range for the first round of the resulting combat to long; if he or she does so, skip the determine range step that round, and the bearer's initial strike that round must be with this weapon.

Ossian
Ally
3 Pool

Unique werewolf with 4 life. 2 strength, 0 bleed. Red List.
Ossian may enter combat with any vampire as a +1 stealth (D) action. In the first round of combat with a vampire who has played a card that requires Auspex during this action, that vampire cannot use any maneuvers or strikes. Ossian gains 1 life at the end of each round for each blood the opposing vampire used to heal damage or prevent destruction that round.

Second question: this never actually happened, but it almost did so the question came up. If Erlik is in play controlled by Player A and another copy of Erlik is brought into play controlled by Player B, does Player B get to move any blood from Erlik down to his or her other uncontrolled Harbingers before he contests the other copy? The question really is, does Erlik enter play before he is turned face down to contest, out of play? I think yes (otherwise, how would he contest another card in play) but a couple other players vehemently thought no. According to his card text, as he enters play, you immediately can move up to 5 of his blood down, so I thought that would happen before you flip him face down. Here is his actual card text:

Erlik
[LK:3]
Cardtype: Vampire
Clan: Harbinger of Skulls
Group: 3
Capacity: 10
Discipline: AUS CEL FOR NEC THN
Sabbat: As Erlik enters play, you can distribute up to 5 blood from him to any of your uncontrolled Harbingers of Skulls. +1 bleed. +1 hand size.

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25 Jun 2018 23:15 #88388 by kschaefer

First, vampire A played an auspex card to block Ossian. The question was whether or not Vampire A could set the range to long before range was determined in the first round of the resulting combat. The set range part is neither a strike nor a maneuver, so I ruled that Vampire A could set the range to long, but would still not be able to strike. Was this correct?

No. Per this text from Sniper Rifle:

the bearer's initial strike that round must be with this weapon.

Because he cannot strike with the sniper rifle he cannot fulfill the must strike card text.

Second question: this never actually happened, but it almost did so the question came up. If Erlik is in play controlled by Player A and another copy of Erlik is brought into play controlled by Player B, does Player B get to move any blood from Erlik down to his or her other uncontrolled Harbingers before he contests the other copy?

Yes. See similar text on Anarch Convert, which can make another vampire anarch and remove itself from the game prior to contesting.

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25 Jun 2018 23:30 - 25 Jun 2018 23:32 #88389 by ReverendRevolver
That Erlik thing will probably come up frequently for the next year. It's a good effect, worthy of a trifle master card for sure (hint hint).

Anway:

Anarch Convert
[Caitiff] Caitiff

Capacity: 1

Group: ANY

Independent. Anarch:
When the convert enters play,
You may remove him from the game to make a non-titled vampire you control anarch and either gain 1 pool or draw 1 card from your crypt.

Bold/underlined timing is "When enters play" Erlik is "as enters play" which sounds even more like it's fine.

I highly anticipate cross table conversations over who yields Erlik after both people burn option Legionnaires turn 2. I think I'll build with G5/6 for a bit. That way, if 3 Legionnaire decks are at the table, I'll win just by not taxing myself contesting :)
Last edit: 25 Jun 2018 23:32 by ReverendRevolver.

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26 Jun 2018 02:02 #88390 by kschaefer

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26 Jun 2018 08:40 #88393 by Ankha

Bold/underlined timing is "When enters play" Erlik is "as enters play" which sounds even more like it's fine.

Anarch Convert text will be reprinted using the "as X enters play" wording, that happens before contesting (it's similar to "as the card is played" for library cards).

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Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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27 Jun 2018 10:07 #88407 by Bloodartist

Anarch Convert text will be reprinted using the "as X enters play" wording, that happens before contesting (it's similar to "as the card is played" for library cards).


Would it be clearer to use wording "Instead of entering play, you may do X"?
I admit that its probably better to use existing word template for consistency, even if it isn't the most intuitive one.

A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing



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