Kamiri wa Itherero blocked by a minion, use of Taking the Skin: Minion

...and one more related one, just to make sure:

- Kamiri with Monster bleeds, gets blocked by ally
- ally survives combat
- Kamiri's text burns ally "at the end of the action"
- Can I now use Monster to pay a blood & untap Kamiri?

I assume yes because Kamiri's effect and Monster happen in same window and I can order the effects how I like?

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Monster
Master: archetype.
Put this card on a ready vampire you control. Once each turn when combat involving this vampire ends and the opposing minion is not ready, this vampire may burn a blood to untap. A vampire may have only one archetype.

No you can't. As per the text of monster 'combat involving... ends... opposing minion is not ready'. Kamiri's special text does not burn the ally in combat but long after that.

Klaital wrote:

No you can't. As per the text of monster 'combat involving... ends... opposing minion is not ready'. Kamiri's special text does not burn the ally in combat but long after that.

I'm not sure I'm understanding this. Is Kamiri's "at the end of the action" a different timing window than Monster's "when combat involving this vampire ends"? I thought those resolved to the same thing?

Sometimes I wish this game had clear and explicit timing windows (and matching keywords)...

PetriWessman wrote:

I'm not sure I'm understanding this. Is Kamiri's "at the end of the action" a different timing window than Monster's "when combat involving this vampire ends"? I thought those resolved to the same thing?

Sometimes I wish this game had clear and explicit timing windows (and matching keywords)...

Yes. "End of the action" and "end of combat" are two different things.

When combat involving a succesful block of an action is about to end it goes like this:
1. End of round of combat
2. End of combat
3. End of action.

That these are separate subsequent steps, affect different card wordings and card interactions such as in this case. Even if there is a Strike: combat ends, all these steps still happen in order.

ps. I remember complaining about this complexity a time of two...
pps. There are technically even more steps where things can happen, such as if you played majesty, and opponent used a flash grenade. Majesty untaps minion before combat ends, flash grenade taps the minion AFTER combat ends but before action ends, and then acting minion can play freak drive to untap at the end of the action. Personally I would like to revamp this whole snake pit of combat rules. ...

ppps. It is generally good idea to check cards whether the things happen before or after combat ends. If it happens after combat ends, combat cards cant be played anymore. For example, if I play eye of unforgiving heaven and rotschreck to send opposing minion to torpor AFTER combat ends, I cannot play righteous aura anymore since its a combat card.

Ankha wrote:

You can't play cards "at the end of combat" or "at the end of the action"

Pretty sure you can. Freak drive and cat's guidance for example. You can play it after combat but still during an action. how is it not at the end of the action? Or are you introducing even more steps? If action was blocked and combat ensued and no further shenanigans were done (form of mist etc), the action will end immediately after combat. Here I see cards like freak drive played literally at the end of the action since thats all that's left of the action.

Your argument that "there is no duration" is REALLY weak, since VTES cards are already played at ridiculous times. Such as psyche played literally in middle of rotschrecks resolving.

It is far better in my opinion to have a clear step for something, rather than have cards playable at an ambiguous "after something" timing. I mean next turn is also after something. Doesn't define it clearly in my opinion.

VTES combat steps reminds me of real numbers, where there are an infinite amount of numbers between 1 and 2. All I wanted was to understand this game and have a finite amount of combat steps. All your explanations confuse me further and seems like the steps are only increasing.