file Taste Vs Rotschreck

24 Oct 2018 18:28 #91464 by brandonsantacruz
This came up in a lackey game yesterday and I wanted to confirm that it works the way another player thinks it does:

Player A inflicts ranged agg damage vs player B (acting).
Player A plays Rotschreck, sending the other player to torpor.
On the way to torpor player B wants to play Rotschreck.

I contend that he cant because of card text and the ruling below:

Taste of Vitae
Combat
Only usable at the end of a round of combat. Not usable by a vampire being burned or going to torpor. (italics for emphasis)

This vampire gains an amount of blood equal to the amount lost by the opposing vampire to damage during this round. A vampire may play only one Taste of Vitae each round.

Rötschreck
Master
Master: out-of-turn. Frenzy.
Put this card on a vampire when an opposing minion attempts to inflict aggravated damage on him or her, whether the damage would be successfully inflicted or not. Combat ends. This vampire is tapped and sent to torpor. This vampire does not untap as normal. During this vampire's next untap phase, burn this card.

The vampire will be going to torpor after the combat has ended, which forbids cards such as Amaranth or Decapitate from being played. [LSJ 20020402]

Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one.
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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24 Oct 2018 18:33 #91465 by Klaital
Replied by Klaital on topic Taste Vs Rotschreck
He can play Taste, since Rotschreck sends the vampire to torpor AFTER combat ends, though he probably doesn't get any blood from the taste since the strikes don't resolve either when rotsch is played.

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24 Oct 2018 19:29 #91466 by blackday
Replied by blackday on topic Taste Vs Rotschreck
Player A inflicts ranged agg damage vs player B (acting).
Player A plays Rotschreck, sending the other player to torpor.
On the way to torpor player B wants to play Rotschreck.

I didnt quite get the question. Is this an error? Do you mean player B wants to play taste of vitae and not Rotschreck?
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24 Oct 2018 20:45 #91468 by brandonsantacruz
sorry, hastily finished that post. Yes, player B wants to play taste despite being on their way to torpor. Seems like this should not work because it is specifically laid out in Taste. There does not seem to be a window between "combat ends" and "this vampire is tapped and sent to torpor." maybe there is, but it is hard to read that into the card for me.

Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one.
-Friedrich Nietzsche

brandonsantacruz.blogspot.com/

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24 Oct 2018 21:37 #91469 by Klaital
Replied by Klaital on topic Taste Vs Rotschreck
Yes there is a window to play taste, the exact same window where you play Psyche! or Telepathic Tracking to negate the go to torpor part. Also the exact same reason to why you can't amaranth or decapitate the target, because they don't go to torpor until AFTER combat.
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25 Oct 2018 00:08 #91471 by jamesatzephyr
Replied by jamesatzephyr on topic Taste Vs Rotschreck

There does not seem to be a window between "combat ends" and "this vampire is tapped and sent to torpor." maybe there is, but it is hard to read that into the card for me.


There isn't a window between those two things, exactly.

A "combat ends" effect of whatever nature causes combat to end, which implicitly also causes the round to end. So while combat is ending, any "end of round" effects can be played (e.g. Taste, Disarm), and any end of combat effects can be played (e.g. Telepathic Tracking). Of course, the various eligibility criteria (if any) for those cards will need to be met, but they can be played during a Rotschreck combat ends just as much as during a Majesty combat ends or the natural end of round/end of combat steps after the Press step.

When combat has actually ended, you're outside combat, so you can't play combat cards. At that point, Rotschreck sends you to torpor. Prior to that, Rotschreck isn't sending you to torpor, so the Taste of Vitae played because the round was ending doesn't see you as going to torpor, because at that point you're not going to torpor. (Unless some other effect is sending you to torpor too, I guess.)
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