file Jacob, the Glitch and Soul Gem

29 Oct 2018 15:48 #91561 by Killiam
Hello again!

I have been working on a Turbo-Jacob deck, and wanted to make sure of the interaction between his special text and Soul Gem. So I searched the Forum rulings and, as luck would have it, I actually found a Turbo-Jacob deck that was posted by someone on the rules team, and it does seem to be designed with the assumption that a Gem-replaced Jacob would be filled to 6 blood.

That’s reassuring, but I know that I may still meet some resistance at my local playgroup, where there is no shortage of rules lawyering (of which I am also guilty).

The problem is that Soul Gem does not read, “move them to your ready region AND THEN fill them to capacity”; it is worded to move them to the ready region WITH blood…equal to…capacity. This could be interpreted to mean that you calculate what counts as bringing them to capacity before they enter play, which would be before Jacob’s special text is activated to increase his capacity.

So my questions are:

1. When Jacob the Glitch burns with the Soul Gem and is replaced by a new Jacob, does the new Jacob get 6 blood, or only 2?
2. If 6 blood instead of 2 (which I believe is the case), can you explain why the timing works out that way?

Thanks very much!
-Bill Troxel

Jacob, The Glitch
[THA]
Tremere antitribu
Capacity: 2
Group: 3
Sabbat: Jacob's capacity is increased by 4 while he is controlled. Your predator can use a master phase action to discard a master card to force you to discard your hand. Draw back up to your hand size afterward.

Soul Gem of Etrius
Equipment
Unique equipment.
If this vampire is burned, draw the top card from your crypt. If it is younger, put the Soul Gem on him or her and move him or her to your ready region with blood from the blood bank equal to his or her capacity; otherwise, move that card to your uncontrolled region (and burn the Soul Gem). If bearer is diablerized, the diablerizing vampire cannot take the Soul Gem.

-Killiam
(Bill Troxel)
"How did some slip of a girly boy from communist East Berlin become the internationally ignored song stylist barely standing before you?" -Hedwig Robinson

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
29 Oct 2018 19:37 #91565 by jamesatzephyr

1. When Jacob the Glitch burns with the Soul Gem and is replaced by a new Jacob, does the new Jacob get 6 blood, or only 2?
2. If 6 blood instead of 2 (which I believe is the case), can you explain why the timing works out that way?


Based on two separate rulings, it appears that:

- when Soul Gem checks on a Jacob in the crypt, he is a 2 cap
- when that Jacob is brought into play by a Soul Gem, he gets blood when in play, so is a 6 cap, with 6 blood.

[LSJ 20040523]

>>as far as i can see, Jacob the Glitch is moved to the ready region
>>first (thus becoming a 6 cap), and _then_ gains blood equal to his
>>capacity (6). Thus burning him on a force of will becomes a hell of a
>>lot trickier.
>
> Yeah, maybe ... LSJ ??

Yeah.



This second ruling is about a Jacob that would self-contest so he burns, and triggers the Soul Gem again, and that one is ruled to be a 2 cap. So the Jacob in the crypt should also be seen as a 2 cap, I think, because when you draw it and check the capacity, it hasn't entered play and isn't controlled.

[LSJ 20090518]

> Suppose I control Jacob the Glitch and some 3-capacity vampire with a
> Soul Gem of Etrius. The 3-cap burns, and I reveal Jacob the Glitch as
> the top vampire of my crypt. The incoming Jacob burns per the rules
> against self-contesting, triggering the Soul Gem again. Is the burning
> copy of Jacob considered a 2-cap or a 6-cap when checking against the
> next vampire on my crypt (i.e., is he considered controlled before he
> is burned)?

He's a 2-cap.

The following user(s) said Thank You: Killiam

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
29 Oct 2018 19:42 #91566 by Killiam
"- when that Jacob is brought into play by a Soul Gem, he gets blood when in play, so is a 6 cap, with 6 blood."

But what is the explanation for why he "gets blood when in play"? By the card text it looks like he comes into play WITH the blood already on him:
"move him or her to your ready region with blood from the blood bank equal to his or her capacity"

This is the question that I really need an answer to for my play group.

-Killiam
(Bill Troxel)
"How did some slip of a girly boy from communist East Berlin become the internationally ignored song stylist barely standing before you?" -Hedwig Robinson

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
29 Oct 2018 19:50 - 29 Oct 2018 19:52 #91567 by DJHedgehog
I would love if someone went back through all those LSJ rulings and put them in one place and re-ruled on them. As far as I know, LSJ isn't involved in the game any more so these nonsense rulings can be laid to rest.

"I'd really love to play this game!"

"Ok! Go search some defunct google group for rulings from some guy who used to design cards for this game. And yes, we're aware they are inconsistent and not at all intuitive."
Last edit: 29 Oct 2018 19:52 by DJHedgehog.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
29 Oct 2018 20:12 - 29 Oct 2018 20:19 #91568 by narpassword

I would love if someone went back through all those LSJ rulings and put them in one place and re-ruled on them.


is that not what these are?

www.vekn.net/general-rulings
www.vekn.net/card-rulings


Also - i played the jacob turbo deck recently.
I figured he fills to 2, not 6:

Jacob's capacity is increased by 4 while he is controlled. (easy enough)

"move him or her to your ready region with blood from the blood bank equal to his or her capacity" (timing here is what makes it tricky)

If it had said 'move him or her to the ready region, then add blood from the blood back equal to their capacity' id say 6

but it says 'with'

'with' to me says you already need to have checked this before you move them out of uncontrolled.

then again, i dont make rules /shrug
Last edit: 29 Oct 2018 20:19 by narpassword.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
29 Oct 2018 20:18 #91569 by Killiam
Regarding:

www.vekn.net/general-rulings
www.vekn.net/card-rulings

--I think that they are a good start, but far from exhaustive. For example, Jacob the Glitch does not appear in card-rulings, despite there being specific rulings from LSJ cited in this thread.

That said, the long work of sorting and rehashing rulings is more or less what we're doing here in the forums by re-asking the old questions under the new rules mongers. Think of it as a group effort, paving this long highway stone by stone. :)

Best,
-Bill

-Killiam
(Bill Troxel)
"How did some slip of a girly boy from communist East Berlin become the internationally ignored song stylist barely standing before you?" -Hedwig Robinson

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
Moderators: AnkhaKraus
Time to create page: 0.071 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum