file Canceling cards and bold text

03 Jan 2019 03:39 #92624 by Nac
Hi

We had a disagreement with a friend over what happens with bold text over cards. Card in question was an Ammo but I suppose it applies to all of them: What happens with bold text? Is bold text part of text? Let's say I cancel an Ammo card, could my oponent play another? Or Stely tenacity, does it go to my hand if canceled?
Many thanks in advance

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Dragon's Breath Rounds
[Combat] Combat

Ammo.
Only usable before resolution of a gun's strike. This gun inflicts +2 aggravated damage each strike for the remainder of this combat. Burn the gun after strike resolution. No more than one ammo card can be used on a gun each combat.


Steely Tenacity
[Action] Action
[Combat] Combat

[Animalism] Animalism
[Dominate] Dominate
[Quietus] Quietus

[1 Blood]

Requires an anarch. Do not replace until after this action. When you would replace this card, you may take this card from your ash heap instead.
[ani] [COMBAT] Strike: hand strike or use a melee weapon strike. This strike is at +1 damage, with an optional press.
[dom] [ACTION] (D) Bleed at +1 bleed.
[qui] [ACTION] +1 stealth action. (D) Enter combat with a ready minion.

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03 Jan 2019 09:09 - 03 Jan 2019 09:20 #92625 by nergalmcl
When a card is canceled still count as played. So if the card has some rule like just one can be played for round/combat/game, you still need to follow this rule.

If the card is canceled they go to your ash heap, then you can use the rule from Steely Tenacity to get her back to your hand.
About the bold argument, everything that are in the description of the card is part of it, except some sentences that comes after the card rules.

Take Animal Magnetism as example (the new one from Lackey or Black Hand Edition):

(Card rules)
Only usable during a referendum.
[ani][obf] This vampire gets +1 vote.
[ANI][OBF] This vampire gets +3 votes.
(Card rules)

(This is not part of the card rules)
I am no orator, as Brutus is; But, as you know me all, a plain blunt man, William Shakespeare, Julius Ceasar, act III scene 2
(This is not part of the card rules)

:assa: :QUI::cel::obf::aus: :cap4: Camarilla.
Last edit: 03 Jan 2019 09:20 by nergalmcl.

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03 Jan 2019 10:04 - 03 Jan 2019 10:05 #92626 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Canceling cards and bold text

Nac wrote: Hi

We had a disagreement with a friend over what happens with bold text over cards. Card in question was an Ammo but I suppose it applies to all of them: What happens with bold text? Is bold text part of text?

Yes. If a card is cancelled, all its cardtext is cancelled (including bold parts).

Rulebook wrote: “Cancel a card”: A "canceled" card has no effect, but it is still considered played. Unless explicitly written, cost for the card is paid. If the card was a strike card, the minion who played it must choose a strike, which might come from another strike card. If the card was an action card, the minion doesn’t lock (he doesn’t pay for the action card), and can play the same action card again.

Nac wrote: Let's say I cancel an Ammo card, could my oponent play another?

It depends what the other ammo card says (since the first ammo card has no effect).
For instance:

Name: Dragon's Breath Rounds
Cardtype: Combat
Ammo.
Only usable before resolution of a gun's strike. This gun inflicts +2 aggravated damage each strike for the remainder of this combat. Burn the gun after strike resolution. No more than one ammo card can be used on a gun each combat.

(Emphasis mine). Since the first ammo was not used (which is different from "played"), you can play a Dragon's Breath Round after another ammo card has been cancelled.

Nac wrote: Or Stely tenacity, does it go to my hand if canceled?

No, the card has no effect.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Last edit: 03 Jan 2019 10:05 by Ankha.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Nac

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03 Jan 2019 10:14 #92627 by LivesByProxy
Is it possible we will ever see a card that cancels a "card effect", rather than just cancels a card?

For example, Super Direct Intervention which "cancels a minion card effect?" the difference being the minion who played it is still locked if it was an action, cost is still payed, if strike card, they technically played a strike and don't get another, etc.

:gang: :CEL: :FOR: :PRO: :cap6: Gangrel. Noddist. Camarilla. Once each turn, LivesByProxy may burn 1 blood to lose Protean :PRO: until the end of the turn and gain your choice of superior Auspex :AUS:, Obfuscate :OBF:, or Potence :POT: for the current action.

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03 Jan 2019 10:37 - 03 Jan 2019 10:48 #92628 by Kraus
Replied by Kraus on topic Canceling cards and bold text

(Emphasis mine). Since the first ammo was not used (which is different from "played"), you can play a Dragon's Breath Round after another ammo card has been cancelled.

So it is still true that a played card that is cancelled, that has a text 'only one player per X', cannot be replayed in the instance, even if the whole text box of the card is cancelled and ignored once cancelled by DI or whatever?

Name: Carrion Crows
[Sabbat:C, SW:C/PT2, CE:PN2, Anarchs:PG2, BH:PN3, LoB:PA2, Third:C, LotN:PR3, KoT:C]
Cardtype: Combat
Discipline: Animalism
Only usable before range is chosen.
[ani] The opposing minion takes 1R damage each round of combat during strike resolution. A vampire can play only one Carrion Crows each combat.
[ANI] As above, but for 2R damage.
Artist: Michael Dixon; Richard Thomas


How does this work with Reins of Power or Giant's Blood?

Name: Giant's Blood
[Jyhad:R, VTES:R, CE:R, LoB:PG, Third:R, LotN:PG, KoT:R/PM]
Cardtype: Master
Master.
Fill a vampire to full capacity with blood from the blood bank. Only one Giant's Blood can be played in a game.
Artist: Richard Thomas; Edward Beard, Jr.

Name: Reins of Power
[Anarchs:C, KMW:PAn, Third:PTr, KoT:C/PV]
Cardtype: Political Action
Successful referendum means each Methuselah may choose a ready vampire he or she controls. Each Methuselah gains 6 pool. Each Methuselah also burns an amount of pool equal to the capacity of his or her predator's chosen vampire. Only one Reins of Power can be played or called in a game.
Artist: Christopher Shy


So 'played' is different from 'used'. A cancelled card is still 'played' for all purposes, even if it wasn't 'used', ie. its effect never happened?

Just making sure I got this right.

How many cards are there, roughly, where this is relevant? Ammos are one, of course, but I can't think of others from the top of my head.

"Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!"
-Nalia De-Arnise

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Last edit: 03 Jan 2019 10:48 by Kraus.

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03 Jan 2019 12:47 #92629 by beslin igor
I can say about cards(Carrion Crows,Reins of Power or Giant's Blood) from my personal gaming experience:
Carrion Crows;"A vampire can play only one Carrion Crows each combat",so if be canceled,you cannot play again.
same rule for Reins of Power or Giant's Blood,text in card said : Only one XXXX can be played in a game.

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