file "Sufficiently Mixed"

20 Feb 2019 20:57 - 20 Feb 2019 20:58 #93581 by Kushiel
"Sufficiently Mixed" was created by Kushiel
Cards produced by Black Chantry Productions are effectively marked, due to their lack of the Deckmaster logo on the back.* The tournament rule for playing with these and other marked cards unsleeved is:

"If cards with distinct backs are used in the same deck (e.g., Jyhad and Vampire: The Eternal Struggle cards, or upside-down 3rd Edition cards and right-side up cards, or mis-cut cards, or cards without the Deckmaster logo) are used, in order to prevent a significant advantage, all cards from the different sets, printings, etc. must be of sufficiently mixed card type, unless they are all sleeved with opaque sleeves (recommended)."

This is a good rule, and I understand why it's in place. My question is, what does "sufficiently mixed" entail?

Assuming that there are only two different types cardbacks in a given deck, a 50/50 split would obviously be ideal. But for any ratio not as exactly balanced, how elastic can this ratio get before it's no longer sufficiently mixed? Is a 60/40 split legal?

*Just to be 100% clear, I'm referring to all the cards BCP has produced, not just the ones recently printed with miscut corners.
Last edit: 20 Feb 2019 20:58 by Kushiel.
The following user(s) said Thank You: brandonsantacruz

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
21 Feb 2019 08:22 #93587 by drnlmza
Replied by drnlmza on topic "Sufficiently Mixed"

Kushiel wrote: Assuming that there are only two different types cardbacks in a given deck, a 50/50 split would obviously be ideal. But for any ratio not as exactly balanced, how elastic can this ratio get before it's no longer sufficiently mixed? Is a 60/40 split legal?.


I don't believe this is something that can be reasonably settled with just ratios.

Consider a weenie bleed deck like the recently posted Belrus NC winning one - www.vekn.net/forum/event-reports-and-twd/77407-twd-belarusian-nationals-2018

40% of that deck is made up of the actions and action modifiers. If I construct a deck like with a 40/60 random split of the backs across all the card types, I'm sure most people would be fine with that, but if I construct that deck with all the actions and action modifiers having 1 back type, and the other cards having a different one, I doubt many people would consider that sufficiently mixed

This gets worse when you throw in more back types (we can have BC backs, WW backs, third ed and Jyhad all in a single deck, for instance).

It would be good to have more guidance on this in the judges guide, and I feel the tournament rules could use some text encouraging players to check with the head judge before the start of the tournament.

--
National Coordinator
South Africa

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
21 Feb 2019 10:11 - 21 Feb 2019 10:15 #93588 by Bloodartist
Replied by Bloodartist on topic "Sufficiently Mixed"
I think that there should simply be a rule for playing with sleeves. Most sensible players do it already, but still.

I noticed after exchanging some cards with my friends, that US-printed cards(drivethrurpg etc) have a distinct "rougher" texture to them compared to EU-printed(carta mundi) cards. This could also be used to effectively mark cards if you have cards from both sources. You can feel the difference with your fingers.

I also think that the suggested ratios thing solves nothing, because you could easily replace reactions, deflections, and other reactionary cards with marked versions which would then be different from actions and other forward going cards and comprise of that 40%ish of the deck, yet still grant advantage if you knew whether cycling cards was worth it to get a reaction off the top of the deck for example.

"Do you believe in the power of the night?
If you want to go with me, refuse the light"
- Blutengel, Soultaker
Last edit: 21 Feb 2019 10:15 by Bloodartist.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
21 Feb 2019 19:24 #93591 by narpassword
Replied by narpassword on topic "Sufficiently Mixed"
I think the point of the rule of 'sufficiently mixed' isnt the whole deck being mixed, but rather, if you have 10 Governs, that they themselves are a sufficient mix.
'
But yea. just use sleeves, they're not expensive...

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
21 Feb 2019 20:25 #93592 by Lönkka
Replied by Lönkka on topic "Sufficiently Mixed"
Sleeve the cards already!

NC, Finland
Finnish :POT: Politics!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Lönkka
  • Lönkka's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Antediluvian
  • Antediluvian
  • War=peace, freedom=slavery, ignorance=strength
More
21 Feb 2019 22:20 #93597 by jamesatzephyr
Replied by jamesatzephyr on topic "Sufficiently Mixed"

narpassword wrote: I think the point of the rule of 'sufficiently mixed' isnt the whole deck being mixed, but rather, if you have 10 Governs, that they themselves are a sufficient mix.


It's a bit of both. Historically, there have been more concrete versions of the rule about having certain card types etc. The problem is that unless they go into excruciatingly painful detail, they are often quite easy to game.

For example, taking your version - that it's about individual cards, not the whole deck - you could have some Jyhad Deflections, some Deckmaster Deflections, and literally no other Jyhad cards in the deck. So you know that every time you pull a Jyhad card, it's going to be Deflection. Yes, you will also draw some Deckmaster Deflections - but being able to look at your hand, see you have a copy of On The Qui Vive in it, and know with absolute certainty that the top card of your deck is a Deflection (because it has a Jyhad back) isn't a bad advantage to have.


But yes, sleeves are a good thing to have - especially in an environment where random people you may not know will need to pick up your cards to read them, Temptation them, or whatever.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
Moderators: AnkhaKraus
Time to create page: 0.154 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum