lightbulb New keyword - Impersonate

27 Feb 2019 19:48 - 27 Feb 2019 19:50 #93761 by Sambomb
After another debate over Mata Hari, i would like to suggest a new keyword.

Original text:
Independent. Red List: Mata Hari has 2 votes (titled). You and she may play cards that require a sect and/or clan as if she were of that required sect and/or clan.

New text:
Independent. Red List: Mata Hari has 2 votes (titled). She may impersonate any sect and/or clan.

Talaq, The Immortal

Old text
Unique mage with 3 life. 0 strength, 0 bleed. Talaq may strike for 1R damage. Talaq may play cards that require basic Quietus [qui] or basic Thaumaturgy [tha] as a vampire with a capacity of 3. Talaq gets an optional maneuver each combat.

New text
Unique mage with 3 life. 0 strength, 0 bleed. Talaq may strike for 1R damage. Talaq may play cards that require basic Quietus [qui] or basic Thaumaturgy [tha]. He may impersonate a vampire with a capacity of 3. Talaq gets an optional maneuver each combat.

Impersonate: This minion can be threated as the impersonation until the resolution of the effects.

Archbishop of Itaocara
Prince ID #510
Last edit: 27 Feb 2019 19:50 by Sambomb.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Lech

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27 Feb 2019 21:49 - 27 Feb 2019 21:54 #93764 by jamesatzephyr

Independent. Red List: Mata Hari has 2 votes (titled). She may impersonate any sect and/or clan.
[...]
Unique mage with 3 life. 0 strength, 0 bleed. Talaq may strike for 1R damage. Talaq may play cards that require basic Quietus [qui] or basic Thaumaturgy [tha]. He may impersonate a vampire with a capacity of 3. Talaq gets an optional maneuver each combat.
[...]
Impersonate: This minion can be threated as the impersonation until the resolution of the effects.


This significantly changes the way both cards work.

As things currently stand, you and Mata can treat her as different clan/sect during the play, resolution and lingering effect of a card played using her special. If "Mata may impersonate" means that it works that for both you and Mata, it also means it for Talaq. Can I count Talaq as a vampire when playing random other cards?

Talaq says: "Talaq may play cards that require basic Quietus [qui] or basic Thaumaturgy [tha] as a vampire with a capacity of 3." You haven't restricted his impersonation to any specific card or effect. If he can impersonate a vampire, can he take a hunt action? Can he commit diablerie? If not, why not? Can Bima play a political action straight out of your hand, and then modify it with Bewitching Oration (assuming a Presence master on Bima)?

This text: " This minion can be threated as the impersonation until the resolution of the effects." doesn't reflect how such cards currently work. The "as a" ability works for play, resolution, and lingering effect. Raking Talons resolved when it was played. Its effect persists for the rest of the combat - but that isn't resolving.

It's not restricted to card play. Can I get an ally to impersonate a vampire when tapping Heidelberg? When Anna Dictatrix11 Suljic takes her action, can she move blood from the blood bank to an ally impersonating a vampire? That's an action that can resolve like any other.
Last edit: 27 Feb 2019 21:54 by jamesatzephyr.

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01 Mar 2019 05:52 #93800 by Sambomb
Replied by Sambomb on topic New keyword - Impersonate
Any toughts about how to change "as If" to a template?
Maybe Tariq just needs a tweak:
He may Impersonate a vampire with a capacity of 3 to play :qui: or :tha: cards.

And im thinking about Impersonate as a one way only, so Heidelberg and Anna cant consider a vampire impersonate Ally as a vampire.

I know its HARD to get everything under a new keyword.

I just want to suggest that MAYBE a new keyword or template could help.
The "limited" keyword is a much better solution then add a forbidden clause in bleed and additional strikes

Archbishop of Itaocara
Prince ID #510

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01 Mar 2019 07:31 #93801 by Lech
Replied by Lech on topic New keyword - Impersonate
I think it should be limited to vampires impersonating other clans, so a vampire is considered to be another clan (or perhaps dual-clan).

:laso: :CEL: :DOM: :OBT: :POT: :cap8:
Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.

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