file Strike restriction and Dog Pack

09 Apr 2019 14:31 #94459 by Ratadin
I have a question regarding strike timing, restrictions and Dog Pack.

The question is, a card that prohibits a minion from doing a certain type of strike stops them only from choosing that strike, from resolving that strike, or both?

In this case, if a minion had a Dog Pack employed, could the opposing minion choose a combat end (and so, cycling it), even though they could not resolve it? If not, could I play a Dog Pack through Summon Spirit Beast after they declare their strike:combat end to stop it from resolving?

A similar case that comes to mind is immortal grapple and an strike with optional maneuvers (like magnum or aid from bat): If I understand it correctly, a minion would declare a strike with optional maneuver during the range phase to use the maneuver, then the immortal would be played and, as the strike was chosen, they won't be able to use it. Use being the key card here as immortal specifies "Use", but Dog pack doesn't.

So, what is the exact ruling for strikes, strikes with maneuvers and strike restrictions?

Summon Spirit Beast [LoB:R]

Cardtype: Combat/Reaction
Cost: X blood
Discipline: Spiritus/Animalism
[ani] [COMBAT] Discard X cards.
[spi] [COMBAT][REACTION] Move X animal retainers from your ash heap to this vampire, with life from the blood bank equal to their starting amounts. After this minion phase ends, burn those retainers.
[SPI] As [spi] above, but the retainers are not burned until after the end of your next minion phase.

Dog Pack [AH:R2, Anarchs:PG]

Cardtype: Retainer
Clan: Gangrel
Cost: 2 pool
Animal with 1 life.
Minions opposing the minion with this retainer cannot end combat as a strike.

Immortal Grapple [Jyhad:R2, VTES:R, Sabbat:U, SW:U/PB, FN:PG, CE:U/PB2, Third:U, LotN:PG2, KoT:U/PB3, HttB:PGar3]

Cardtype: Combat
Discipline: Potence
Only usable at close range before strikes are chosen. Grapple.
[pot] Strikes that are not hand strikes may not be used this round (by either combatant). A vampire may play only one Immortal Grapple each round.
[POT] As above, with an optional press. If another round of combat occurs, that round is at close range; skip the determine range step for that round.

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09 Apr 2019 14:41 #94460 by Ratadin

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10 Apr 2019 09:31 - 10 Apr 2019 09:34 #94477 by Bloodartist
I am not a judge, but I am fairly certain that in VTES dog pack prevents you from playing a combat end card. As a rule of thumb in VTES, you cannot play cards that would have an illegal effect. You must be able to apply it, similarly that you have to be able to pay the cost of a card. It's bit iffy, but at least its pretty consistent in VTES.

edit: Dog pack says that opponent cannot "Choose combat end as a strike". You play the card as you choose the strike. You cannot choose the strike, you cannot play the card.

"Do you believe in the power of the night?
If you want to go with me, refuse the light"
- Blutengel, Soultaker
Last edit: 10 Apr 2019 09:34 by Bloodartist.

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10 Apr 2019 17:21 #94485 by jamesatzephyr

Bloodartist wrote: edit: Dog pack says that opponent cannot "Choose combat end as a strike".


No it doesn't.

www.vekn.net/images/stories/downloads/cardlist.txt

Minions opposing the minion with this retainer cannot end combat as a strike.

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11 Apr 2019 14:47 - 13 Apr 2019 09:19 #94494 by Bloodartist

jamesatzephyr wrote:

Bloodartist wrote: edit: Dog pack says that opponent cannot "Choose combat end as a strike".


No it doesn't.

www.vekn.net/images/stories/downloads/cardlist.txt

Minions opposing the minion with this retainer cannot end combat as a strike.


So the answer to the topic question is...?

ps. The card probably should have the text I posted, because my text is clearer.

"Do you believe in the power of the night?
If you want to go with me, refuse the light"
- Blutengel, Soultaker
Last edit: 13 Apr 2019 09:19 by Bloodartist.

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12 Apr 2019 07:21 - 12 Apr 2019 07:26 #94496 by Palamedes

Ratadin wrote: I have a question regarding strike timing, restrictions and Dog Pack.

The question is, a card that prohibits a minion from doing a certain type of strike stops them only from choosing that strike, from resolving that strike, or both?


Both, plus you cannot play a card (to cycle) that gives you S:CE, because you have to play a card that gives a valid strike.
If by any way you have already defined your strike as S:CE, you don't have a strike at all.

Note: Dog Pack cannot prevent Rötschreck, because it is not a strike.
Last edit: 12 Apr 2019 07:26 by Palamedes. Reason: Adding the "Note".

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