question-circle Mind of the Wilds + Telepathic Tracking

09 Jul 2019 02:24 #95804 by Boris The Blade

Ankha wrote: The sentence used on the card is correct, but I think we can improve it indeed (Principle of least astonishment).

In general, when a qualifier applies to only part of a list, it is clearer to put the unqualified items first, e.g.:

"If this action is blocked, the blocking minion cannot strike to end combat, and this vampire gets an optional maneuver in the first round of the resulting combat."

That being said, an even better solution would have be avoid stacking effects with different timings / restrictions without a compelling game need in the first place. In that particular case, would anyone have cared if the maneuver had not been restricted to first round? Maybe not worth an errata, but something to keep in mind for future cards.
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09 Jul 2019 06:35 #95805 by Lönkka
VERY valid points from Boris The Blade!

It is especially so much clearer to put the unqualified items first.

But so true regarding different timings too.
Here is an old and valid proverb: KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid)

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09 Jul 2019 07:00 - 09 Jul 2019 07:01 #95806 by Ankha

Boris The Blade wrote:

Ankha wrote: The sentence used on the card is correct, but I think we can improve it indeed (Principle of least astonishment).

In general, when a qualifier applies to only part of a list, it is clearer to put the unqualified items first, e.g.:

"If this action is blocked, the blocking minion cannot strike to end combat, and this vampire gets an optional maneuver in the first round of the resulting combat."

No, it isn't, because "in the first round of the resulting combat" could apply to the whole sentence.

"A, and B during C" = "{A, and B} during C" (because of the Oxford comma, you can't assume that C only applies to B).

"A during C, and B" cannot be logically misunderstood as "C applies to A and B". (But you can read it quickly and make the wrong assumption, so we want to help the reader with that).

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Last edit: 09 Jul 2019 07:01 by Ankha.

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09 Jul 2019 07:03 - 09 Jul 2019 07:05 #95807 by Ankha

self biased wrote:

Ankha wrote: You're not clarifying, you're changing the card.
If stealth is not needed, you cannot play it at superior (but you can play it at inferior).


but that exact change was made to Form of Mist...

Yes, but this is a totally different situation. Mind of the Wilds can be played at inferior if you don't need the stealth. At superior, like almost every action modifier, you can play it only if you need stealth.
On the other hand, Form of Mist is played 99% of the time in a situation that requires stealth (since the action was blocked, it means that the blocking minion has enough intercept), except in some corner-case situations. We removed those 1% unintuitive situation.

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Last edit: 09 Jul 2019 07:05 by Ankha.

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09 Jul 2019 07:31 #95808 by Tadori

Ankha wrote:

self biased wrote:

Ankha wrote: You're not clarifying, you're changing the card.
If stealth is not needed, you cannot play it at superior (but you can play it at inferior).


but that exact change was made to Form of Mist...

Yes, but this is a totally different situation. Mind of the Wilds can be played at inferior if you don't need the stealth. At superior, like almost every action modifier, you can play it only if you need stealth.
On the other hand, Form of Mist is played 99% of the time in a situation that requires stealth (since the action was blocked, it means that the blocking minion has enough intercept), except in some corner-case situations. We removed those 1% unintuitive situation.


But isn't this exactly the problem. Because exceptions like this are created, we have a lot of rules differences based only on context of the card. Isn't there a way to have a one rule for this type of cards. Because right now we have two card working very similar and the ruling is different. In my opinion DT should do everything possible to simplify the Rules, not complicate them.

And for the text of the card I suggest:

If this action is blocked, this vampire gets an optional maneuver in the first round of combat.
Blocking minion can't strike to end combat during block resolution.
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09 Jul 2019 08:22 #95809 by Ankha

Tadori wrote:

Ankha wrote:

self biased wrote:

Ankha wrote: You're not clarifying, you're changing the card.
If stealth is not needed, you cannot play it at superior (but you can play it at inferior).


but that exact change was made to Form of Mist...

Yes, but this is a totally different situation. Mind of the Wilds can be played at inferior if you don't need the stealth. At superior, like almost every action modifier, you can play it only if you need stealth.
On the other hand, Form of Mist is played 99% of the time in a situation that requires stealth (since the action was blocked, it means that the blocking minion has enough intercept), except in some corner-case situations. We removed those 1% unintuitive situation.


But isn't this exactly the problem. Because exceptions like this are created, we have a lot of rules differences based only on context of the card.

You are comparing an action modifier card and a combat card, with two very different effects.

Tadori wrote: Isn't there a way to have a one rule for this type of cards. Because right now we have two card working very similar and the ruling is different.

No, there are not of the same type, and they don't work the same at all. One is a combat ends that continues the action. The other is an action modifier that prevents from playing combat ends and gives a maneuver.

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