question-circle Abstain from voting...

25 Jul 2019 21:26 #95987 by narpassword
Replied by narpassword on topic Abstain from voting...

6.3.3. Gaining Votes
Methuselahs have no inherent votes nor ballots -- votes and ballots must be gained, and there are a variety of ways to do so. Once gained, a vote or a ballot need not be cast right away, if at all.

That line tells you that the votes dont have to be cast (ie abstain), and that if you dont cast them immediately, you can still wait to cast them later in discussion.


To be fair, that line in the rulebook is a mealy-mouthed way to explain that gained votes or ballots do not need to be cast. All that line is saying is that votes or ballots are sometimes not cast at all. It could be referring only to situations where casting votes or ballots are prevented by card text. There's nothing there about being able to not cast gained votes or ballots. I'm guessing this is why the original poster has run into this problem recurrently (I have also run into the same problem, and I was not confident that the rulebook allowed gained votes or ballots to not be cast as currently worded).


¯\_(ツ)_/¯

could be.

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26 Jul 2019 07:52 #95990 by Tadori
Replied by Tadori on topic Abstain from voting...

6.3.3. Gaining Votes
Methuselahs have no inherent votes nor ballots -- votes and ballots must be gained, and there are a variety of ways to do so. Once gained, a vote or a ballot need not be cast right away, if at all.

That line tells you that the votes dont have to be cast (ie abstain), and that if you dont cast them immediately, you can still wait to cast them later in discussion.


To be fair, that line in the rulebook is a mealy-mouthed way to explain that gained votes or ballots do not need to be cast. All that line is saying is that votes or ballots are sometimes not cast at all. It could be referring only to situations where casting votes or ballots are prevented by card text. There's nothing there about being able to not cast gained votes or ballots. I'm guessing this is why the original poster has run into this problem recurrently (I have also run into the same problem, and I was not confident that the rulebook allowed gained votes or ballots to not be cast as currently worded).

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27 Jul 2019 00:36 #95998 by Boris The Blade
Votes are not only static. That line allows to play vote effects to cycle (e.g. discard a political card) without changing the tally.

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31 Jul 2019 00:46 #96036 by Sydnelson
Replied by Sydnelson on topic Abstain from voting...

6.3.3. Gaining Votes
Methuselahs have no inherent votes nor ballots -- votes and ballots must be gained, and there are a variety of ways to do so. Once gained, a vote or a ballot need not be cast right away, if at all.

That line tells you that the votes dont have to be cast (ie abstain), and that if you dont cast them immediately, you can still wait to cast them later in discussion.


To be fair, that line in the rulebook is a mealy-mouthed way to explain that gained votes or ballots do not need to be cast. All that line is saying is that votes or ballots are sometimes not cast at all. It could be referring only to situations where casting votes or ballots are prevented by card text. There's nothing there about being able to not cast gained votes or ballots. I'm guessing this is why the original poster has run into this problem recurrently (I have also run into the same problem, and I was not confident that the rulebook allowed gained votes or ballots to not be cast as currently worded).


Yeah, I also think the rulebook is a little vague when explaining how to vote or not, besides the text of the cards have diferences that cause doubts such as: superior Kindred Coercio that says if the vampire has not declared the votes he can choosing to abstain and preventing your votes from being changed, as Neferu's text does not say so and suggests that even if the vampire has chosen to abstain she can force him to vote as she pleases.

Fernando Cesar - Sydnelson
LackeyCCG and OCTGN VtES Mantainer


:adv: :camarilla: :vent: :obf: :pro: :tha: :DOM: :PRE: :cap8:
Prince of Rio de Janeiro

Powerbase Rio de Janeiro

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31 Jul 2019 10:00 - 31 Jul 2019 10:07 #96044 by Bloodartist
Replied by Bloodartist on topic Abstain from voting...

Neferu's text does not say so and suggests that even if the vampire has chosen to abstain she can force him to vote as she pleases.


OFFTOPIC:
I have a Neferu/velvet tongue deck, and I have played her assuming that she cannot force a vampire to cast votes. I admit it is bit unclear.

However, I assume that if another vampire casts votes in a referendum called by Neferu, she can play velvet tongue at inferior first to give corruption counter and change that vampires votes on the fly before results are tallied?

ps My Neferu games tend to have the most complex politics ever btw, for those who fancy that sort of thing :silly:

A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing



Last edit: 31 Jul 2019 10:07 by Bloodartist.

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31 Jul 2019 12:40 #96048 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Abstain from voting...

Neferu's text does not say so and suggests that even if the vampire has chosen to abstain she can force him to vote as she pleases.


OFFTOPIC:
I have a Neferu/velvet tongue deck, and I have played her assuming that she cannot force a vampire to cast votes. I admit it is bit unclear.

Correct.

Neferu
Independent. 2 votes (titled): Once each referendum, Neferu can burn 1 blood to change the votes and ballots of a vampire with any of your corruption counters to votes and ballots of your choice.

She changes the votes and ballots. If no votes or ballots have been cast, she can't change them, so she can't force an abstaining vampire to vote.

However, I assume that if another vampire casts votes in a referendum called by Neferu, she can play velvet tongue at inferior first to give corruption counter and change that vampires votes on the fly before results are tallied?

Yes.

Velvet Tongue
[ser] Only usable during a referendum. Put 1 corruption counter on a minion casting votes or ballots in this referendum.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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