file Concealed Weapon and Living Wood Staff

10 Jun 2020 10:32 - 10 Jun 2020 10:33 #100058 by GuyRusso6
I have some questions about concealed weapon. How does it work with Living Wood Staff? Since the staff has a strength of X, is it considered to be 0 by concealed weapon? Is it possible to then pay 5 conviction to get a staff that then would have a strength of +5? If that does not work, could I pay a lower amount to get it into play for an acceptable strength amount? Or is Living Wood staff not a choice for concealed weapon at all because the strength value is not static?
How does Concealed Weapon work with the formerly cold iron weapons like dagger? Is the chance that a Kiasyd might be in play enough to disqualify a dagger from being played? Also, if a dagger is concealed out (or if disguised weapon is used instead) I’m assuming you can’t put a second one out because it was not a standard equip action. Is that correct?


Name: Concealed Weapon
[Jyhad:C, CE:C/PB/PTo, BH:PTo4, KMW:PAl3, LotN:PG2, KoT:C/PT2]
Cardtype: Combat
Only usable before range is determined.
This minion equips with a non-unique weapon card from your hand (requirements and cost apply as normal). The weapon cannot cost 3 or more pool or inflict (with a regular strike) aggravated damage or 4 or more damage.
Artist: Alejandro Collucci; Jeff Menges


Name: Living Wood Staff
[NoR:R]
Cardtype: Equipment
Creed: Avenger
Cost: X conviction
Unique melee weapon.
Strength damage each strike. Imbued inflict +X damage each strike with this weapon. Using Cleave with this weapon will not burn this weapon.
Artist: Travis Ingram


Name: Dagger
[HttB:C/B2]
Cardtype: Equipment
Cost: 1 pool
Melee weapon.
You can put a second Dagger from your hand or ash heap on this minion after they equip this Dagger from your hand. Damage inflicted on a Kiasyd by this weapon is aggravated. Strike: strength+1 damage. Alternatively, ranged strike: strength damage and, after strike resolution, put this weapon out of play until the end of the action. Burn this weapon if any damage from it is prevented.
Artist: Joel Biske


Name: Disguised Weapon
[Jyhad:C, VTES:C, Sabbat:C, SW:C, CE:C/PM2, LoB:PO]
Cardtype: Combat
Discipline: Obfuscate
Only usable before range is chosen if you have a weapon card in your hand.
[obf] Equip this vampire with that weapon (and pay cost to equip as normal).
[OBF] As above, but usable when choosing a strike.
Artist: Eric LaCombe; Anson Maddocks

Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is ~Milton~
Last edit: 10 Jun 2020 10:33 by GuyRusso6.

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10 Jun 2020 14:40 #100059 by jamesatzephyr

GuyRusso6 wrote: I have some questions about concealed weapon. How does it work with Living Wood Staff? Since the staff has a strength of X, is it considered to be 0 by concealed weapon? Is it possible to then pay 5 conviction to get a staff that then would have a strength of +5? If that does not work, could I pay a lower amount to get it into play for an acceptable strength amount? Or is Living Wood staff not a choice for concealed weapon at all because the strength value is not static?


I can't find any particular sign that this has ever come up before.

In the absence of a specific ruling to follow, my off-the-cuff ruling would be:
- As part of playing Concealed Weapon, you'd need to specify the cost of Living Wood Staff
- That cost would mean, assuming you'd picked four, it dealt strength+4 damage with a regular strike
- That means it's out of range of a CW, so you can't play it

But I can't think of / find any precedent here.

GuyRusso6 wrote: How does Concealed Weapon work with the formerly cold iron weapons like dagger? Is the chance that a Kiasyd might be in play enough to disqualify a dagger from being played?


Concealed Weapon works based on striking against a generic opponent. So it's not assumed that it's Kiasyd.

GuyRusso6 wrote: Also, if a dagger is concealed out (or if disguised weapon is used instead) I’m assuming you can’t put a second one out because it was not a standard equip action. Is that correct?


Given that the card text only requires it to be equipped, and Concealed Weapon equips the weapon, it should work. It doesn't say it has to be equipped as an action.
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10 Jun 2020 15:30 #100060 by kschaefer

jamesatzephyr wrote:

GuyRusso6 wrote: I have some questions about concealed weapon. How does it work with Living Wood Staff? Since the staff has a strength of X, is it considered to be 0 by concealed weapon? Is it possible to then pay 5 conviction to get a staff that then would have a strength of +5? If that does not work, could I pay a lower amount to get it into play for an acceptable strength amount? Or is Living Wood staff not a choice for concealed weapon at all because the strength value is not static?


I can't find any particular sign that this has ever come up before.

In the absence of a specific ruling to follow, my off-the-cuff ruling would be:
- As part of playing Concealed Weapon, you'd need to specify the cost of Living Wood Staff
- That cost would mean, assuming you'd picked four, it dealt strength+4 damage with a regular strike
- That means it's out of range of a CW, so you can't play it

But I can't think of / find any precedent here.

Living Wood Staff is unique and cannot be Concealed into play.
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10 Jun 2020 15:39 #100061 by jamesatzephyr

kschaefer wrote: Living Wood Staff is unique and cannot be Concealed into play.


Oh, duh. Well, that would explain that then.

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10 Jun 2020 19:03 - 10 Jun 2020 19:05 #100062 by GuyRusso6
Oh well, I had convinced myself that it was not unique. It is always good to find out you are cheating BEFORE you go ahead and build the deck. At least I still have Angel of Berlin.

Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is ~Milton~
Last edit: 10 Jun 2020 19:05 by GuyRusso6.

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11 Jun 2020 09:00 #100067 by lip
Concerning the Dagger question, I think Topaz ruling [PIB 20150105] supports James claim.

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