question-circle Damage done after combat and lingering prevention

13 Jun 2020 05:56 - 13 Jun 2020 05:57 #100085 by lip
Can lingering prevention effects played beforehand like Apparition or Armor of Caine's Fury prevent damage dealt after combat like :PRE: Catatonic Fear or :OBF: Oubliette ?

It was ruled no during league game, but we found no ruling on that ☺︎ It seems reasonable, but as these after-combat damage have been ruled as strike damage (eg. their damage is reduced by Nephandus and can be increased by Aim cards), a confirmation would be nice.


Apparition [ Click to expand ]


Armor of Caine's Fury [ Click to expand ]


Catatonic Fear [ Click to expand ]


Oubliette [ Click to expand ]
Last edit: 13 Jun 2020 05:57 by lip.

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13 Jun 2020 07:06 - 13 Jun 2020 07:10 #100086 by Kilrauko

lip wrote: Can lingering prevention effects played beforehand like Apparition or Armor of Caine's Fury prevent damage dealt after combat like :PRE: Catatonic Fear or :OBF: Oubliette ?

...


Short;
No.

Both mentioned cards allow damage preventation during combat round. There are no combat rounds outside of combat, therefore they cannot be used to prevent damage.


Long;
Compare the wordings with that of Leather Jacket;

Name: Leather Jacket
[Sabbat:C, SW:C/PB/PT/PV, FN:PS, CE:PTo/PTr, BH:PN, Third:C/PB2/PM2]
Cardtype: Equipment
Equipment.
If the action to equip with the Leather Jacket is successful, unlock the acting minion at the end of the turn. Bearer may burn Leather Jacket to prevent all the damage from the opposing minion's strike. A minion may have only one Leather Jacket.
Artist: Tim Bradstreet & Grant Goleash; T. Bradstreet & G. Goleash


Leather Jacket does not mention "during combat round" as a condition and therefore can be burned outside combat to prevent damage from opposing minion's strike, even if it's something like aimed Catatonic Fear.

Same with Imbued power Surge that can be used to prevent damage with the caveat that those counters disappear after the action ends.

Name: Surge
[NoR:R]
Cardtype: Power
Virtue: Vengeance
[COMBAT][REACTION] [1 CONVICTION] Put three surge counters on this imbued. This imbued may burn any number of surge counters to prevent that amount of non-aggravated damage. Burn all surge counters on this imbued at the end of the action.
Artist: Heather Kreiter


To get past even those two prevents one has to dance with style and

Name: Riposte
[DS:C3, CE:PTo, LoB:PO]
Cardtype: Combat
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Celerity
Not usable on the first round of combat.
[cel] Strike: combat ends, and inflict 1 damage to the opposing minion once combat ends if the range is close (damage not preventable).
[CEL] As above, but inflict 2 damage.
Artist: Pete Burges & Dave Roach


Oh and Oubliette that burns blood or life instead dealing damage gets past the Leather Jacket and Surge just fine.

Trust in Jan Pieterzoon.
Last edit: 13 Jun 2020 07:10 by Kilrauko. Reason: EDIT: Oubliette is fine too
The following user(s) said Thank You: beslin igor

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25 Jun 2020 07:43 - 25 Jun 2020 07:54 #100171 by Bloodartist
Keep in mind that you can, however, dodge the damage and negative effects of combat ends like oubliette. Since dodge avoids negative effects of a strike, doesnt matter if they are combat ends.

As a rule of thumb, damage outside combat isn't preventable at all to my knowledge. That's why cards like jar of skin-eaters is so dangerous. (with which you can deal aggro damage as a d-action)

"If a man wanders into a tiger's domain, it may result in his being devoured.
And so it has."
-- Pisha, VtM:B

Last edit: 25 Jun 2020 07:54 by Bloodartist.

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26 Jun 2020 08:20 - 26 Jun 2020 08:37 #100184 by lip
Thanks guys for your answers.

@Bloodartist I'm well aware of the current rulings on after-combat damages, thanks. As Kilrauko pointed out, damage outside combat can very well be prevented depending on the card.

@Kilrauko Thanks for all the details. It's true Oubliette should not even be listed in my post as it does not inflict damage.

I'm convinced Apparition or Armor of Caine's Fury cannot be used to prevent damage from Catatonic Fear. This means:

Each strike or damaging effect made by the opposing minion against Nephandus in combat inflicts 1 less damage.

applies, where

This vampire may prevent 1 damage each round this combat.

does not.

I find it not immediately obvious, so I'd like to add a clear ruling on that in the Codex. Right now I don't have one (although this is nothing urgent, really, so no pressure here).
Last edit: 26 Jun 2020 08:37 by lip.

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