file off-turn Nocturn

02 Oct 2020 16:52 #100847 by Snodig
Replied by Snodig on topic off-turn Nocturn

Lönkka wrote: Yeah, out of turn Nocturn probably ain't game breaking...

Would be clearer to let them act on the turn they are recruited. You know, because of the card text.

(Also worth noticing is that when recruited out of turn they have shorter life span than usually).

All strong points. I wouldn’t mind it being ruled this way.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Lönkka

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
02 Oct 2020 21:19 #100848 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic off-turn Nocturn
I'll consider it.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
The following user(s) said Thank You: Lönkka

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Oct 2020 09:10 #100849 by Palamedes
Replied by Palamedes on topic off-turn Nocturn
Sure, out of turn Nocturn probably ain't game breaking, but...
What about [OBT] version? Can a vampire with Enkil Cog (already used for the first Nocturn) perform another Nocturn action again this (off-)turn?
If they cannot, why? The card seems to say exactly they can. :whistle: :lol:

[OBT] As above, and this vampire can perform this action again this turn, with the cost increased by 1 blood.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Oct 2020 13:09 #100856 by Rémi
Replied by Rémi on topic off-turn Nocturn
Dear all,

Palamedes wrote: Sure, out of turn Nocturn probably ain't game breaking, but...
What about [OBT] version? Can a vampire with Enkil Cog (already used for the first Nocturn) perform another Nocturn action again this (off-)turn?
If they cannot, why? The card seems to say exactly they can. :whistle: :lol:

[OBT] As above, and this vampire can perform this action again this turn, with the cost increased by 1 blood.


I would disagree.
The vampire cannot act without any other special effect like Madness Netword, etc.
So Superior OBT Nocturn grant the option to redo the Nocturn recruiting action if that vampire could act.

I think that is the same as "Taking the Skin: Minion". It grand you the option to bleed one more time, only if that vampire could act.

Name: Taking the Skin: Minion
Cardtype: Action Modifier/Combat
Discipline: Abombwe
[abo] Skin. Play when this vampire burns a minion. Put this card on this vampire and unlock him or her. This vampire may bleed an additional time this turn and gets +1 bleed and +1 stealth when bleeding. Burn this card during your discard phase. A minion can have only one skin.

I would say the only the basic version makes confusion.

Regards,
Rémi.

I am Rémi Cavaillé (), Barcelona (SPAIN). I was the Prince of Lyon (FRANCE) in 2003 :)
The following user(s) said Thank You: Khormag

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Oct 2020 15:03 - 06 Oct 2020 15:05 #100857 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic off-turn Nocturn
There are two other scenarios that would point in the same direction:

1/ Nocturn at superior says: "As above, and this vampire {can} perform this action again this turn, with the cost increased by 1 blood.". Let's say the vampire who recruited the Nocturn was using Enkil Cog and untaps, does that mean he can do another Nocturn without the use of the Enkil Cog? The clause overrides the NRA, not the fact that the vampire cannot normally act during other Methuselahs' minion phase.

2/ Theo Bell says: "Theo can enter combat with a minion as a (D) action." However, he cannot do this outside your minion phase by default.

Enkil Cog specifies: "During any Methuselah's minion phase, this vampire can lock this card to perform an action."
Madness Network specifies: "Unlocked Malkavians can perform actions in any Methuselah's minion phase"

Nocturn lack the "in/during any Methuselah's minion phase" clause.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Last edit: 06 Oct 2020 15:05 by Ankha.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
06 Oct 2020 23:44 #100861 by kschaefer
Replied by kschaefer on topic off-turn Nocturn

Ankha wrote: 1/ Nocturn at superior says: "As above, and this vampire {can} perform this action again this turn, with the cost increased by 1 blood.". Let's say the vampire who recruited the Nocturn was using Enkil Cog and untaps, does that mean he can do another Nocturn without the use of the Enkil Cog? The clause overrides the NRA, not the fact that the vampire cannot normally act during other Methuselahs' minion phase.

Enkil Cog enables the vampire to act out of turn and card text on Nocturn allows it to do so again. Quite simply card text: "this vampire {can} perform this action again this turn" (highlight mine).

Ankha wrote: 2/ Theo Bell says: "Theo can enter combat with a minion as a (D) action." However, he cannot do this outside your minion phase by default.

Per the rulebook he cannot act out of turn and nothing on his card text suggests otherwise. This seems like a red herring comment to prop up the weak argument supporting the misruling about Nocturn.

Ankha wrote: Nocturn lack the "in/during any Methuselah's minion phase" clause.

But Nocturn does have the card text: "the turn it is recruited" and "this turn." That should be whatever turn this turn is whether that's your turn or out-of-turn. That's the overriding text that supersedes the standard rulebook rule about when minion can act.

If you want to have Nocturn's only be able to act on their turn or prevent additional recruit actions, then you're going to need to be wordier and more specific about what the current turn is.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
Moderators: AnkhaKraus
Time to create page: 0.179 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum