AaronC wrote:


Technically wrong, only Julio can bleed for 6 from those. Alonso bleed for 7 and Lucian for 9.

AaronC wrote:


Replace scouting mission with spying mission, brainfart.

Now, what I say is that for now, the niosferatu bleed flavor tend to be either Deep song (which is unbeatable in pure power level), or making a lot of smallish bleed at insane stealth to setup a very big bleed. I would have prefered a design who keep that than a legal manipulation.

Robert carter, codex of the edenic ground keeper and guarded rubrics are already +2 bleed permanents who fit nicely on nosferatu or anti nosferatu(BH for Guarder rubrics). You can already bleed for lots if you dedicate your deck to it. Sorru but I don't think overpowering them with a obf/ani bleed action is that useful... :/

This card is clearly broken. At least you can't call a Parity Shift on your prey EVERY turn (unless they find a way of gaining the 5+ pool you stole). I think this card would be cooler/better like this...

ani/obf: bleed and gain 1 pool if successful.
ANI/OBF: same as above but for +1 bleed.

Basically a Social Charm outside of Presence.

Juggernaut1981 wrote:


i like this version @ superior a lot as a starting point!!! gives the non- sort of a bounce-ability (too bad Cybele can play it as well ). should be destroyable by action, i think. inferior is a tad too good imo, when compared to kindred spirits, greater curse etc. perhaps 'employ a retainer from your hand (normal requirements and cost apply) and pay 1 blood to untap'? could be overpowered, but they sure could use something like this.

porphyrion wrote:


Thanks for bringing Juggernaut's version up again, which I honestly didn't read carefully. I don't have a problem saying that the original proposed superior version was too strong. I also proposed a different version.

The concept of the card seems to be that the Nosferatu gains information to blackmail the Methuselah with. When the Nossie is being bled, he cashes in on the information to have the other Methusaleh take the fall or to recuperate damage from that Methusaleh.

The text would have to say "when a bleed is declared against you" in order to address the timing of bleed modifiers. What's interesting is that bounced bleeds could have been increased before coming at you, which makes the card a wicked revenge against being a bleed sink.

This version is also clever because it does address the problem of bleed defense but not by increasing pool as I had suggested. It's true that bloating is a kind of bleed defense, but it is also so much more.

I woud have to think about the cost structure of Juggernaut's version. I'm not sure I like the "bounce" nature of making another player take a bleed, just because of my concept of the card. I have also been reviewing other dual discipline cards, and I have found that with few execeptions (Scalpel Tongue) they are not noticeably more powerful than mono-discipline cards.

Maybe...

Eyes in the Dark
Action
1
Bleed at +1 bleed. Gain 1 pool if this bleed is successful.
Choose a Methuselah and put this card into play. When a minion of the chosen Methusaleh successfully bleeds you or successfully calls a referendum that would make you burn pool, you may burn this card in order to reduce the bleed to zero or to reduce the pool lost in the referendum to zero. You cannot have more than one copy of this card targeting the same Methusaleh.

Concept:
Basic: Nosferatu and animal buddies spy out damaging information about the prey Methusaleh that the Nosferatu then releases to the Methusaleh's enemies at a profit.
Superior: The Nosferatu and animal buddies spy out very damaging information about a Methusaleh. The evidence can be sold to make that Methusaleh's minions stop damaging actions to their own Methusaleh.

Another idea would be to make it like Major Boon/Posion Pill - direct at a Methusaleh who might damage you. When the damage comes, you retaliate by releasing the information you got from spying on him. You avoid and make him take his own bleed/vote damage.

Ohlmann wrote:


I dare to say that govern the unaligned is unbeatable in power level, not deep song.

I love the idea of a redirect-like in one additional discipline, and indeed tried to make a version some time ago.

The one by Aaron seem pretty good, a bit more versatile than a redirect, but less offensive and easier to stop.

Lech wrote:


As an aside, I would say that Govern is about right in power level as a good card, if only because there is several alternative a bit less good but still very good.

In its category, the gap between sens death or Nose of the hound and Deep song is in my opinion astonishingly bigger than the one between enchant kindred, dark mirror of the mind, or public trust. Even if Govern is a good reason to play Dominate, it's a lot easier to replace than Deep song.

(note that dominate also have conditionning and deflection, not to talk about the lesser card like Obedience, Far mastery or mind rape. In pure powerlevel, none of thoses card are that bad, it's the accumulation the problem)

I am a huge fan of "Feline Saboteur."

Unfortunately, by itself, "Feline Saboteur" does not help you oust your prey, perhaps this card idea is what "Feline Saboteur" should have been.

However, it does present the opportunity for a card idea that has synch with "Feline Saboteur."

"Night of a Thousand Eyes"
Action
Bleed at +1 bleed and stealth.
As above, and choose a reaction card in your prey's ash heap. The chosen card may not be played during this action.

Or perhaps:

"Night of a Thousand Eyes"
Action
Bleed. Your prey burns the top card of his or her library if this bleed is successful (even if another Methuselah is the target of this bleed.)
Bleed at +1 bleed. If you successfully bleed your prey, remove X cards from your prey's ash heap from the game, where X is amount of pool lost.

Also, "Night of a Thousand Eyes" is a fucking cool name for a card.

Cool ideas everyone First of all, I thought if the aim is to boost the Nosferatu, we could make the card Nos /!Nos specific instead of

Second of all, I thought it could actually be Nosferatu-like and reveal some information about the Methuselah you're bleeding

What about something like this? Sorta like Gremlins at superior, but with a Nos-flavoured twist, and age restriction to prevent it from being too abusable by the weenie vamps.

Eyes in the Dark

Action
Requires a or with a capacity above 6
+1 stealth action. Bleed at +1 bleed. If the bleed is successful, look at that Methuselah's hand.