Nosferatu(-ish) bleed card idea

AaronC wrote:

To bleed for 6 and gain 3 pool with my card idea, several things have to happen.

1. You have to have a vampire with , of which there are three in the game without playing a skill card. Their capacities are 9, 10, and 11. You can have only two of the three in your crypt at the same time.

Technically wrong, only Julio can bleed for 6 from those. Alonso bleed for 7 and Lucian for 9.

AaronC wrote:

So what you're saying is you think that there should be a bleed modifier for ? As I mentioned, the card is meant to address the problems that have with ousting and bleed defense. Night Moves is not / specific, Vermin Channel is only , and Scouting Mission is a card, and is not a clan discipline.

Replace scouting mission with spying mission, brainfart.

Now, what I say is that for now, the niosferatu bleed flavor tend to be either Deep song (which is unbeatable in pure power level), or making a lot of smallish bleed at insane stealth to setup a very big bleed. I would have prefered a design who keep that than a legal manipulation.

Robert carter, codex of the edenic ground keeper and guarded rubrics are already +2 bleed permanents who fit nicely on nosferatu or anti nosferatu(BH for Guarder rubrics). You can already bleed for lots if you dedicate your deck to it. Sorru but I don't think overpowering them with a obf/ani bleed action is that useful... :/

This card is clearly broken. At least you can't call a Parity Shift on your prey EVERY turn (unless they find a way of gaining the 5+ pool you stole). I think this card would be cooler/better like this...

ani/obf: bleed and gain 1 pool if successful.
ANI/OBF: same as above but for +1 bleed.

Basically a Social Charm outside of Presence.

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

Eyes in the Dark
Action
Bleed at +1 bleed. Gain 1 pool if this action is successful.
Choose a Methuselah, put this card into play and this acting vampire may burn 2 blood to untap after resolving this action. When you are successfully bled, you may burn this card to force the Methuselah chosen by this card to burn pool instead of you. Once this card is burned, no action modifiers can be played to increase the bleed. You cannot have more than one copy of this card targeting the same Methuselah.

i like this version @ superior a lot as a starting point!!! gives the non- sort of a bounce-ability (too bad Cybele can play it as well ). should be destroyable by action, i think. inferior is a tad too good imo, when compared to kindred spirits, greater curse etc. perhaps 'employ a retainer from your hand (normal requirements and cost apply) and pay 1 blood to untap'? could be overpowered, but they sure could use something like this.

porphyrion wrote:

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

Eyes in the Dark
Action
Bleed at +1 bleed. Gain 1 pool if this action is successful.
Choose a Methuselah, put this card into play and this acting vampire may burn 2 blood to untap after resolving this action. When you are successfully bled, you may burn this card to force the Methuselah chosen by this card to burn pool instead of you. Once this card is burned, no action modifiers can be played to increase the bleed. You cannot have more than one copy of this card targeting the same Methuselah.

i like this version @ superior a lot as a starting point!!! gives the non- sort of a bounce-ability (too bad Cybele can play it as well ). should be destroyable by action, i think. inferior is a tad too good imo, when compared to kindred spirits, greater curse etc. perhaps 'employ a retainer from your hand (normal requirements and cost apply) and pay 1 blood to untap'? could be overpowered, but they sure could use something like this.

Thanks for bringing Juggernaut's version up again, which I honestly didn't read carefully. I don't have a problem saying that the original proposed superior version was too strong. I also proposed a different version.

The concept of the card seems to be that the Nosferatu gains information to blackmail the Methuselah with. When the Nossie is being bled, he cashes in on the information to have the other Methusaleh take the fall or to recuperate damage from that Methusaleh.

The text would have to say "when a bleed is declared against you" in order to address the timing of bleed modifiers. What's interesting is that bounced bleeds could have been increased before coming at you, which makes the card a wicked revenge against being a bleed sink.

This version is also clever because it does address the problem of bleed defense but not by increasing pool as I had suggested. It's true that bloating is a kind of bleed defense, but it is also so much more.

I woud have to think about the cost structure of Juggernaut's version. I'm not sure I like the "bounce" nature of making another player take a bleed, just because of my concept of the card. I have also been reviewing other dual discipline cards, and I have found that with few execeptions (Scalpel Tongue) they are not noticeably more powerful than mono-discipline cards.

Maybe...

Eyes in the Dark
Action
1
Bleed at +1 bleed. Gain 1 pool if this bleed is successful.
Choose a Methuselah and put this card into play. When a minion of the chosen Methusaleh successfully bleeds you or successfully calls a referendum that would make you burn pool, you may burn this card in order to reduce the bleed to zero or to reduce the pool lost in the referendum to zero. You cannot have more than one copy of this card targeting the same Methusaleh.

Concept:
Basic: Nosferatu and animal buddies spy out damaging information about the prey Methusaleh that the Nosferatu then releases to the Methusaleh's enemies at a profit.
Superior: The Nosferatu and animal buddies spy out very damaging information about a Methusaleh. The evidence can be sold to make that Methusaleh's minions stop damaging actions to their own Methusaleh.

Another idea would be to make it like Major Boon/Posion Pill - direct at a Methusaleh who might damage you. When the damage comes, you retaliate by releasing the information you got from spying on him. You avoid and make him take his own bleed/vote damage.