Pentex Subversion Poll #2 and Discussion

personally, i would go with the countdown-counter option. make PS cost 1-3 pool and also give it 1-3 counters that burn at the start of your prey's turn. that or make it cost 3 pool when played (on 8+caps).

i don't mind errata as much as i hate wallpaper btw.

Joscha wrote:

Squidalot wrote:

You can't change it as you'd have to ban Una first.

The reason you need PS is due to overly powerful star vampire decks and Una is a great example of that.

I think Una is penalized bad enough by a Pentex Subversion even if she were allowed to remove it with an action. Granted you probably lose a minion to her while blocking that remove-action. But after the Freak Drive she can't do anything more because of the PS and so is still at a big disadvantage. Am I wrong?

yes you're wrong - losing a minion (potentially having it burn) to block Una removing her pentex is horrible.

There's also the case on the uber bleed decks (Nergal, Lucian etc) that the star vampire is very, very hard to block without a lot of minions with static intercept.

Villein + 5 zillahs to make these guys more playable + Cog really just adds to the speed

Haze wrote:

I like the card as a lunge tool. What I don't like is when it's not used to lunge, it's used to lock-down someone's minion phase by taking away actions. It becomes "creature removal" in a game that's not supposed to be MtG.

I disagree about it being a counter to certain star vampires. If those star vampires are really overpowered as claimed, then something about the game itself is terribly flawed, and it's not the responsibility of one magic-bullet card to fix that flaw.

mattias you clearly have not played enough games against Una , to realise how flawed she is (or specifically the fact that she can act 10+ times in a row on turn 3) that's very hard to counter.
She's probably the biggest single reason to need Pentex, Enkil Cog in combination with other stars e.g. Nergal, Lucian etc is another reason. These vampires are extremely powerful and very hard to stop.

A simplier fix would be to remove Pentx from the game after it's burnt as it's only really absuable where there is multiple MPA.

How about:

Pentex(TM) Subversion
Type: Master
Cost: 2 pool
Unique master.
Put this card on any ready minion. The minion with this card cannot take actions and cannot block actions. This card may be burned by any other minion as a action. If played on vampire with capacity 8 or above, burn this card during your next untap phase.

Squidalot wrote:

mattias you clearly have not played enough games against Una , to realise how flawed she is (or specifically the fact that she can act 10+ times in a row on turn 3) that's very hard to counter.

This is probably another discussion, but since people aren't complaining about how broken Uta Kovacs and Jann Berger are, perhaps the problem isn't Una. Perhaps the problem is 1. Freak Drive, which might need an escalating cost structure, or 2. the fact that the game affords few ways to interact with non-stealth action modifiers outside of Direct Intervention.

quite possibly but I stick to one area at a time hence you can't substantially changed Pentex Subversion without changing something else.

It doesn't just have to be Freak Drive - Cog with friends is quite painful as well.