I've tried to play a lot of VTES tournaments and I've NEVER seen a RoF+Madness Network deck played. It doesn't mean I don't think they would be horridly annoying, but then again Madness Network would mean that someone still has to get the chance to take actions to kill the Madness Network. I've got my own Rachel Brandywine Homonculus Network Breeder (it's actually not a "Rachel bleeds for Mucho" but Rachel makes babies and the babies Night Moves you to gain the edge before you gain another with Victoria). Kill the Network and the deck works reasonably, but nothing as insane as it was before.

Kill the Network, remove your Reversal of Fortunes problems.

Juggernaut1981 wrote:
As you said, you haven't seen the deck working. You can't break the Madness Network when you get no turn to play at all (which is happening with this deck).
(BTW assuming that players don't know how to play is a bit offensive.)

I don't mind the deck being strong. What I dislike is that it breaks the game mecanics and the whole player relationship, just as Kindred Restructure did.

If the card is played 0.0001% of the time, then banning it won't change anything in the 99.99999% remaining games.
But for the 0.0001% games, it will be a major improvement to the game experience.
Or fix it to being playable twice per game.

The problem with RoF+madness network is that it more often than not help its prey. When the deck works fine only RoF's prey (and the RoF player) will get a minion phase. The prey can often quite easily help the table by removing madness network or block the vote but why should he? He is the chosen one out of two who get game turns. The RoF player basically helps his prey with a free turn everytime the deck succeeds. Sure, the RoF player can still vote and bleed his prey but that tech is seriously crippled due to how many cards is needed to uphold the RoF strategy.

Prey win by seating order.

Ankha wrote:


Gameplay wise it would the most logical choice to ban Reversal of Fortune. Whole game would totally improve 0.0001% or some random number. But there is other point too. I can picture banning a card causing some argues that Vekn is changing the game too much or some other random cryings. Also there haven't been any banned cards for a long time and it is cool to say that Vtes has very few banned cards. So it is quite heavy price to pay just for 0.0001% improvement. So I guess best would be just hope Reversal of Fortune decks doesn't show up.

What should be done with Reversal of Fortune?

You should try to break the card and have fun with it. If anyone wants to post their best copy of the most heinously evil Reversal of Fortune/Madness Network/Smiling Jack/You Die Now deck, please do.

That way everyone can try to abuse it and once it becomes the dominant tournament winning and game mechanic destroying archetype, the card will be banned.

The deck has been playable since Jyhad, and the whole crypt for it has been available since Ancient Hearts. Why do you think it is a problem now, and why wasn't it before?

Jeff Kuta wrote:
I have already provided the link of a TWD.

Boris The Blade wrote:
It has always been a problem since its creation. It's just that it required time to be discovered.

How is it more of an issue than Una + Freak Drive ?
Is it because it plays on turn 2 rather than on turn 4 ?

Pascal Bertrand wrote:
I never stated it was more or less an issue than Una Freak Show. Or Tupdogs. This topic is about Reversal of Fortune.

Ankha wrote:


Now that this is clear, we can resume.

As Juggernaut said I think the problem here is Madness Network, not Reversal of Fortune. But if something has to be done with Reversal, here's two simple suggestion for errata:

1. A metuselah can play only one Reversal of fortune.

2. You can not play this card if you have another copy of Reversal of Fortune in your ash heap.

Option 1. is perhaps the easiest and least disruptive. Option 2. would still allow aformentioned madness + reversal to be played, but would put a serious wrench in its wheels(requiring some sort of card recycling).