First Strike vs. Strike: Combat Ends

Ankha wrote:

DeathInABottle wrote:

Pascal wrote:

Well, anyone can feel free to try First Strke resolving pre-SCE.
Amongst other things I would highly recommend (in a competitive environment):
- Elimelech + Coma
- Muddled Vampire Hunter
- Quick Jab (Basilia, Samantha, Hector & Dogs of War, ..)

But if you do try it, please send me your feedback

I'm glad to see that a few people are offering to playtest the possible change. Elimelech + Coma would be devastating, of course, but he is an 11 cap, and Coma does cost 3 blood - and dodge would still beat it. And dodge or prevent would both beat MVH and Quick Jab agg. Elimelech sounds like he would become broken, but I think playtesting - especially where playtesters deliberately start including more dodge cards to adjust to the new meta - would have to determine that.

I'm glad to see there are people having time to playtest so useless changes.
I have also a request: I've always thought that Memories of Mortality shouldn't be playable on a Call the Great Beast. It's a demon. It can't have any memories of when it was human. Can someone playtest that to see if it's balanced?

Just did at a 6 player table with myself and realized its still not as broken as imbued with it. And its banned. I also started a fistfight with myself for contesting gilbert duane and mariel lady thunder. B-)

Put me firmly in the "eliminate First Strike completely" camp.

I do not see any true problems with having FS resolve before S:CE. It may bring into play cards that never see use and slightly dilute decks that rely solely on S:CE for combat defense. Or not. Combat is combat and having a slight bit more ways around S:CE will not make it easier to win with. Elimelich, and Houghton for that matter, will not be tearing up the scene due to their costs and lack of titles. Ruth, on the other hand, may become a little monster. With affordability, access to KS and Muddles she can become a scary piece to an effective deck. I believe a larger concern will lie with animalism. It's main weakness has been S:CE. With people trying to deal with this newfound threat animalism will find less speed bumps. That, coupled with the extremely more useful Canine Hordes, will find themselves even more threatening without having to change their deck design in any way to deal with this FS insurgence. Otherwise, it could be interesting to see odd and formerly crappy cards like Forearm Block (unless the damage prevention is too late) or Adaptability make their way into decks.

I looked it up. Forearm Block is still pretty useless.

So just to be clear what's being discussed here is S:CE resolving at the same time as strikes with first strike? So, the only real change is that a strike with fs would effect a miniom using S:CE. Combat still ends before environmental damage etc.

I like this. S:CE is still plenty effective but not really the absolute trump it is today. Combat defense modules will benefit from being a bit varied.

Animalism combat doesn't benefit too much. Yeah you can horde away that equipment in the face of majesty, but bats and crows still goes away. Too many bowls and hearts and bows anyway.

Lambach wrote:

So just to be clear what's being discussed here is S:CE resolving at the same time as strikes with first strike?

We're talking about First Strike coming before S:CE, not at the same time. That would mean, for instance, that your vampire who struck with superior Majesty would not get to untap if he got hit with unprevented First Strike aggravated damage, since the S:CE strike would not get to resolve.

Robert's point is that Animalism gets a bit better just because the most effective defense against Bats and Crows would get a bit worse. People might replace some S:CE in their deck with dodges or prevention out of fear of First Strike agg damage or Muddles. Neither dodges nor prevention is nearly as effective as S:CE against bats and crows combat.