who is the hands down worste 11 cap?

Dr.Mafrune wrote:

Elimelech can get, wt: four ride forth combined with enkil cog for free multiaction with no fear of archon investigations.
On a malkavian black hand deck he is capable of playing the art of memory and can influence other vampires really fast ( govern, the call, reunion kamut ).

Well, yes, but he is far from being alone to be able to do that, and he is very expensive for such shenanigan compared to other vampires. Blackhorse Tanner or Al-Munthatir work almost as well for multiacting and speed influence, while having worthwhile special or discipline.

I also feel he is vastly overshadowed by Appius Corvius, who is much better at stealth bleeding in my experience, and have The Rake and Saul Meira who share all three discipline and black hand. Saul Meira is also another enabler of Enkil Cog Shenanigan (which are a lot more needed for Appius since he have no natural multiacting)

Dr.Mafrune wrote:

Mind rape deck, Flurry of action deck, New Council of Doom, Alastors 4-5, etc.
With his spread of disciplines he can combine with a lot of clans and high cap vampires. 4 Votes and +2 bleed. He is not top notch, but flexible enough to see him in a lot of tournament winning decks. By far does he not belong to the bottom of the elevenths.

That depend on how you class the 11 caps. Nobody have done a Raphael superstar deck ; he have discipline who work well together but he lack an additional ability, or a discipline to make him worthwhile alone. That's sad (and subjective) for an 11-cap.

I could imagine playing Augustus as a main vampire because of his hard to use and silly special, but I don't see any fun or efficient reason to center around.

Of course, you can say he is good because he have classic discipline together. I find he is lacking.

Nobody posted that link yet?
vtesone.wordpress.com/2009/01/21/harrod-vs-josef-von-bauren/

I don't think Elimelech is that bad. He brings a lot of multiaction as a Seraph with and he can be be influenced by younger vampires with Reunion Kamut.

Ohlmann wrote:

That depend on how you class the 11 caps. Nobody have done a Raphael superstar deck ;

It might not be a star deck, but he is the best vampire in a Flurry of action deck because he is the only one with the 4 disciplines: . Adana lacks , Fanchon lacks .

Non-existant user wrote:

I don't think Elimelech is that bad. He brings a lot of multiaction as a Seraph and he can be be influenced by younger vampires with Reunion Kamut.

I understand the theory. But in practice, I feel it very lacking. He have no vote and no Magic of the smith ; he is too big to be impressive for influencing vampires, and he is pretty bad at rushing, since Telepathic tracking is very expensive against S:CE, while needing setup (read : a flamethrower or assault rifle) to be any good against any serious combat deck.

I have seen it played a lot, but I never seen him shine.

Note that the good use to Reunion Kamut is influencing Elimelech with auspex weenie, not the other way around.

Ohlmann wrote:

Dr.Mafrune wrote:

Elimelech can get, wt: four ride forth combined with enkil cog for free multiaction with no fear of archon investigations.
On a malkavian black hand deck he is capable of playing the art of memory and can influence other vampires really fast ( govern, the call, reunion kamut ).

Well, yes, but he is far from being alone to be able to do that, and he is very expensive for such shenanigan compared to other vampires. Blackhorse Tanner or Al-Munthatir work almost as well for multiacting and speed influence, while having worthwhile special or discipline.

I also feel he is vastly overshadowed by Appius Corvius, who is much better at stealth bleeding in my experience, and have The Rake and Saul Meira who share all three discipline and black hand. Saul Meira is also another enabler of Enkil Cog Shenanigan (which are a lot more needed for Appius since he have no natural multiacting)

Dr.Mafrune wrote:

Mind rape deck, Flurry of action deck, New Council of Doom, Alastors 4-5, etc.
With his spread of disciplines he can combine with a lot of clans and high cap vampires. 4 Votes and +2 bleed. He is not top notch, but flexible enough to see him in a lot of tournament winning decks. By far does he not belong to the bottom of the elevenths.

That depend on how you class the 11 caps. Nobody have done a Raphael superstar deck ; he have discipline who work well together but he lack an additional ability, or a discipline to make him worthwhile alone. That's sad (and subjective) for an 11-cap.

I could imagine playing Augustus as a main vampire because of his hard to use and silly special, but I don't see any fun or efficient reason to center around.

Of course, you can say he is good because he have classic discipline together. I find he is lacking.

Ohlmann wrote:

Another possible nominee is Elimelech. Partly because his special is so disconnected from its discipline that it's near impossible to use

man. what you are writing is so irrelevant.
first strike does not combo with protean agg damage ?
first strike does not combo with dementation's coma ?
first strike does not combo with disguised weapon ivory bow or senghir dagger ?