jamesatzephyr wrote:


Latest wording on Disarm:

Disarm wrote:


Pulled Fangs has seen a similar update.

Ah, I forgot about the changes in:

www.vekn.net/index.php/forum/6-rules-que...0&start=30#30748

Or, more specifically, I remembered Pascal was contemplating it (a page or two back in the thread), but didn't remember the change being confirmed.

Specifically: "I'll change Disarm and Pulled Fangs to get this clear. They'll only be usable at close range."

Pardon me for being dense, but does this change how Outside the Hourglass interacts with Disarm and Pulled Fangs, if the combat ends before range is determined?

prunesquallor wrote:
No.

The real problem comes from Vampiric Disease which doesn't state exactly when you get a counter.
VD could be changed to "after range has been determined" (with "after" meaning "immediately after") or "at the beginning of the choose strike step".

Interesting that LSJ is implying (from the old Mariel Lady Thunder & Elysium rulings) that there is NO range before the determine range is set (i.e. VD can't trigger because there is no range until the determine range step is completed).

But later we have people insisting (and rulings insisting) that Disarm should respond to the damage from Outside the Hourglass...

Why can't we just keep it nice and simple: Damage dealt before range cannot be counted against damage that must occur at a specific range. The argument I remember seeing here on these forums basically went: "There must be a range before there is a range, and since the default is close then it must be close". So, honestly, I can't reconcile the Disarm Ruling (which says that damage before range is Close Range Damage) and the traditional rulings on things such as VD and Mariel (which says that damage before range has no range).


Pascal,
It sounds like you need to pick ONE premise and apply it to ALL cards (changing any appropriate rulings no matter who made them and when).

1) Before the Determine Range Step there is no range

OR

2) The range is always close unless the Determine Range Step changes it to Long.

Juggernaut1981 wrote:
Could you provide a pointer? I've browsed the different links in this topic and couldn't find what you're talking about.

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

Option 3) the current ruling, which could be summarized as "The range is known once the Determine Range step is over". It's as valid as the 2 others (and is official).

What happens if a minion A plays OtH in combat with the blocking minion B with Improvised Flamethrower. Before range step ends, the minion A plays maneuver to long, then B moves to close, then A back to long, and range is set to long.
So, from this moment range is known, and OtH damage is dealt on long, but when minion B takes that unpreventable damage from Improvised Flamethrower's text?

I believe the correct answer is that the judge's head explodes.

Megabaja wrote:


www.vekn.net/index.php/forum/6-rules-que...0&start=20#30550

Pascal wrote:


It wasn't long when OtH was played. It became long after. We don't go back and interfere with it then (retro-check it).

Looking at the very end of the thread that James just linked you get this(which should keep my head from exploding in the likely event I face these situations tomorrow):

Pascal Bertrand wrote: