Outside the Hourglass and Vampiric Disease

jamesatzephyr wrote:

(Personally, from an 'ick' perspective, I'd rather the Outside the Hourglass interaction with range wasn't necessary (such as by errata-ing it by fiat to be environmental damage, a la Weather Control), or that all the dependent cards - like Disarm - that interact with it were only playable after range has been determined. But that's not where we are.)

Latest wording on Disarm:

Disarm wrote:

[pot] Only usable at close range at the end of a round of combat in which this vampire successfully inflicted more damage than the opposing vampire. Not usable by a vampire being burned or going into torpor. Put this card on the opposing vampire and send that vampire into torpor. The vampire with this card has -1 strength. He or she may burn this card by burning 3 blood. A vampire can have only one Disarm.

Pulled Fangs has seen a similar update.

Ah, I forgot about the changes in:

www.vekn.net/index.php/forum/6-rules-questions/30276-extrala-is-wrong-did-you-know-that--part-91?limit=10&start=30#30748

Or, more specifically, I remembered Pascal was contemplating it (a page or two back in the thread), but didn't remember the change being confirmed.

Specifically: "I'll change Disarm and Pulled Fangs to get this clear. They'll only be usable at close range."

Pardon me for being dense, but does this change how Outside the Hourglass interacts with Disarm and Pulled Fangs, if the combat ends before range is determined?

Interesting that LSJ is implying (from the old Mariel Lady Thunder & Elysium rulings) that there is NO range before the determine range is set (i.e. VD can't trigger because there is no range until the determine range step is completed).

But later we have people insisting (and rulings insisting) that Disarm should respond to the damage from Outside the Hourglass...

Why can't we just keep it nice and simple: Damage dealt before range cannot be counted against damage that must occur at a specific range. The argument I remember seeing here on these forums basically went: "There must be a range before there is a range, and since the default is close then it must be close". So, honestly, I can't reconcile the Disarm Ruling (which says that damage before range is Close Range Damage) and the traditional rulings on things such as VD and Mariel (which says that damage before range has no range).


Pascal,
It sounds like you need to pick ONE premise and apply it to ALL cards (changing any appropriate rulings no matter who made them and when).

1) Before the Determine Range Step there is no range

OR

2) The range is always close unless the Determine Range Step changes it to Long.